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Mueller Investigation pt4

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Paul2 said:
How am I conflating those two definitions?
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lets start again, this the definition:

"Colloquially, people use "perjury trap" to refer not just to grand jury subpoenas, but any time that the government seeks to question a witness in hopes that they will be able to prosecute the witness for lying -- not just for perjury, but for obstruction or lying to the feds."

Now, and this is important, this does not suggest that there may be other reasons to question the witness. However here we are focusing on the specific issue raised above. This is particularly so where they ask you questions that they already know the answer to!

Do you follow?
 
FBI: "Mr. President, were you aware of a meeting between Michael Cohen and <insert Russian dude's name here> at Trump Tower on <insert date here>?"

The potential answers are:
a) yes
b) no
c) refuse to answer/don't recall

If Trump did know about it and ...

he answers yes, then there's no risk of perjury.

he answers no then there's a risk of perjury.

He can also refuse to answer.

So what's the trap part?
 
The Shrike said:
FBI: "Mr. President, were you aware of a meeting between Michael Cohen and <insert Russian dude's name here> at Trump Tower on <insert date here>?"

The potential answers are:
a) yes
b) no
c) refuse to answer/don't recall

If Trump did know about it and ...

he answers yes, then there's no risk of perjury.

he answers no then there's a risk of perjury.

He can also refuse to answer.

So what's the trap part?
Click to expand...

The concept would be the meeting was legal. So asking about it doesn't help the FBI solve a crime.
 
The Shrike said:
FBI: "Mr. President, were you aware of a meeting between Michael Cohen and <insert Russian dude's name here> at Trump Tower on <insert date here>?"

The potential answers are:
a) yes
b) no
c) refuse to answer/don't recall

If Trump did know about it and ...

he answers yes, then there's no risk of perjury.

he answers no then there's a risk of perjury.

He can also refuse to answer.

So what's the trap part?
Click to expand...

That is not the way the trap is set, which should be obvious.

A typical way is that they ask you questions about information they already have.

When is the last time you met with x to discuss y?
They know it is June.
You forget and say April. You have just violated 18 usc 1001.
 
This is such a crock of crap. There is no perjury trap as far as Trump is concerned. It's not like they are coercing some 18 year old kid without legal counsel who doesn't know his rights to lie. No, this is POTUS, armed with a battalion of high priced attorneys, and Rudy.

All Trump has to do is tell the God damn truth. But as Shakespeare said 'aye, there's the rub'. Trump cannot tell the truth. Not just because telling the truth is against his nature, but because it would expose Trump as the traitor and criminal we all know him to be.

So the President, the Big Dog and the other sycophants cry 'perjury trap' as if an honest investigation of the facts is wrong.
 
The Big Dog said:
lets start again, this the definition:

"Colloquially, people use "perjury trap" to refer not just to grand jury subpoenas, but any time that the government seeks to question a witness in hopes that they will be able to prosecute the witness for lying -- not just for perjury, but for obstruction or lying to the feds."

Now, and this is important, this does not suggest that there may be other reasons to question the witness. However here we are focusing on the specific issue raised above. This is particularly so where they ask you questions that they already know the answer to!

Do you follow?
Click to expand...
Yes, and we can move on from here (but I still don’t see the conflation, nor did you spell it out.)

But, moving on, let’s clarify the perjury trap situation even more. Consider two scenarios: in one, x-1 witnessness all agree on a fact, where x = the minimum number of witnesses needed to confirm that fact. Asking Individual One about that fact is not a perjury trap, right?

In the other scenario, x witnesses all testify to a fact. Asking Individual One about that fact *is* a perjury trap, right?

But what if you ask x*2 witnesses and they are evenly divided? Doesn’t that argue for asking everyone everything (assuming they all are knowledgeable about the fact in question) and let the chips fall where they may?
 
Paul2 said:
Yes, and we can move on from here (but I still don’t see the conflation, nor did you spell it out.)

But, moving on, let’s clarify the perjury trap situation even more. Consider two scenarios: in one, x-1 witnessness all agree on a fact, where x = the minimum number of witnesses needed to confirm that fact. Asking Individual One about that fact is not a perjury trap, right?

In the other scenario, x witnesses all testify to a fact. Asking Individual One about that fact *is* a perjury trap, right?

But what if you ask x*2 witnesses and they are evenly divided? Doesn’t that argue for asking everyone everything (assuming they all are knowledgeable about the fact in question) and let the chips fall where they may?
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That does not really help to clarify anything, to be honest.
 
acbytesla said:
This is such a crock of crap. There is no perjury trap as far as Trump is concerned. It's not like they are coercing some 18 year old kid without legal counsel who doesn't know his rights to lie. No, this is POTUS, armed with a battalion of high priced attorneys, and Rudy.

All Trump has to do is tell the God damn truth. But as Shakespeare said 'aye, there's the rub'. Trump cannot tell the truth. Not just because telling the truth is against his nature, but because it would expose Trump as the traitor and criminal we all know him to be.

So the President, the Big Dog and the other sycophants cry 'perjury trap' as if an honest investigation of the facts is wrong.
Click to expand...

The FBI doesn't seem to distinguish between lying and saying something you think is true but wrong.
 
The Big Dog said:
That is not the way the trap is set, which should be obvious.

A typical way is that they ask you questions about information they already have.

When is the last time you met with x to discuss y?
They know it is June.
You forget and say April. You have just violated 18 usc 1001.
Click to expand...


“Knowingly and willfully”?
 
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"To the best of my recollection it was in April"

Where's the trap?
 
The Shrike said:
But if the documents you gave them indicated the date then you knew the date, too. So why lie to say you didn't know it? If you do so it's not a perjury trap, it's just perjury.
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Maybe you haven't reviewed the date most recently and got mixed up.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Maybe you haven't reviewed the date most recently and got mixed up.
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So, 'to the best of my recollection' I was telling the truth.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

If you don't know the difference between someone being wrong and someone lying, then i can't help you.
 
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BobTheCoward said:
Maybe you haven't reviewed the date most recently and got mixed up.
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It's your opinion that the FBI are that hard nosed. Trump and his cretins have changed their government documentation about meetings with the Russians several times and have faced absolutely zero penalties.

Post something solid that supports your position or just drop it.
 
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