Cont: Mueller Investigation pt3

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The Great Zaganza said:
give the person who stopped Trump a medal.
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It's probably someone who's actually read them who's managed to persuade him that releasing them would actually be a bad idea for him. Certainly the only public statement we've had from someone who has read them (which Trump has said he has not) was "be careful what you wish for", indicating that doing so would be harmful for Trump.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
It's probably someone who's actually read them who's managed to persuade him that releasing them would actually be a bad idea for him. Certainly the only public statement we've had from someone who has read them (which Trump has said he has not) was "be careful what you wish for", indicating that doing so would be harmful for Trump.
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Given his mindset it has to be about him, otherwise he wouldn't even be capable of considering the affects on anyone else.
 
Trump tweets

"I met with the DOJ concerning the declassification of various UNREDACTED documents. They agreed to release them but stated that so doing may have a perceived negative impact on the Russia probe. Also, key Allies’ called to ask not to release. Therefore, the Inspector General....."

"....has been asked to review these documents on an expedited basis. I believe he will move quickly on this (and hopefully other things which he is looking at). In the end I can always declassify if it proves necessary. Speed is very important to me - and everyone!"
 
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Trump doesn't care if the documents are good or bad for him: they are a smoke bomb, some red meat to distract the press from his latest disasters.
This makes it all the more terrible that he would risk FBI sources for a cheap news cycle advantage.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
More suspicious money transfers around the Trump Tower meeting
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Awesome comment on that article:

Mark Ivey
"To unearth connections between some of their accounts, they invoked a provision of the Patriot Act — a post-9/11 law that included new tools to track money laundering and terrorist financing. " I can't wait to hear Rudy Giuliani go on cable news and say that the Patriot Act is illegal and has no place in the RussiaGate investigation..
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Captain_Swoop said:
Trump tweets

"I met with the DOJ concerning the declassification of various UNREDACTED documents. They agreed to release them but stated that so doing may have a perceived negative impact on the Russia probe. Also, key Allies’ called to ask not to release. Therefore, the Inspector General....."

"....has been asked to review these documents on an expedited basis. I believe he will move quickly on this (and hopefully other things which he is looking at). In the end I can always declassify if it proves necessary. Speed is very important to me - and everyone!"
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My guess.. there was something really embarrassing to Trump and the republicans in the documents that they want to hide.

FBI memo: "We intercepted this communication between Russian agents saying Trump is asking for help. Maybe we should investigate."
 
Sherkeu said:
I once had a discussion with an Oxford mathematician about the biggest problem in logic and reasoning... and the biggest problem is language. Language is not math. It cannot be defined precisely. It has shades of meaning depending on the listener/reader and their experiences with the words. It is a most imperfect way to communicate (and yet it is all we really have..absent some AI overlords).
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I agree. Language is not cut and dry. That's why we miscommunicate all the time. Ask any married couple! :D

And to stay on topic...I think there is no collusion that will be found in a way for prosecution of Trump to proceed. All charges so far are unrelated or tertiary... at best. If they have something in the inner scope, they need to pee or get off the pot asap. Presidencies are timely endeavors.
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I suspect you are right regarding Trump directly...unless they can show Trump had either previous or contemporary knowledge of the infamous Tower meeting. I also suspect that mysterious call Jr. made directly after the meeting was to Daddy Dearest. I do, however, think they will find criminal financial going ons is the way of tax fraud, etc. Trump doesn't want his tax returns made public for a very good reason.

I don't agree that they "need to pee or get off the pot". I think they should have as long as needed to do a thorough job.
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
key Allies’ called to ask not to release"

Kremlin.
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Probably GCHQ

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia


GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
It's probably someone who's actually read them who's managed to persuade him that releasing them would actually be a bad idea for him. Certainly the only public statement we've had from someone who has read them (which Trump has said he has not) was "be careful what you wish for", indicating that doing so would be harmful for Trump.
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My thoughts exactly.
 
River said:
Thank you for asking for correction on your assumptions. I've not made up my mind yet, because certain key evidence is still being stonewalled. We should see some cherry picked portions soon. I may have an opinion on outcome of this in another month or two. Until then, you can label me as undecided and waiting on more evidence.
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I don't think it's reasonable to be undecided about these fanciful conspiracy theories.

  • How come FBI Director Chris Wray, Trump appointee, Republican, unambiguously acknowledges that Russia hacked/meddled? Is he some sort of dimwit/sheeple unable to see Trump/RT reality?
  • Dan Coats, Director Homeland Security, Trump appointee, Republican. Same question.
  • Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State, Trump appointee, Republican. Same question.
  • James Mattis, Secretary of Defense, Trump appointee. Same question.
  • John Bolton, Natl Security Advisor, Trump appointee, Republican. Same question.
  • Nickey Haley, UN Ambassador, Trump appointee, Republican. Same question.
I could keep going on here at great length.
 
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Sherkeu said:
And to stay on topic...I think there is no collusion that will be found in a way for prosecution of Trump to proceed. All charges so far are unrelated or tertiary... at best. If they have something in the inner scope, they need to pee or get off the pot asap. Presidencies are timely endeavors.
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
No they don't. They need to ensure that any case they plan to bring is air tight.

Many commentators, including federal prosecutors and former officials, have remarked on how amazingly quickly Mueller is moving for a case this large and complex.
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The goal of the investigation was never to get someone, it was to find out the ******* truth!
But Sherkeu wants it to stop before then. Just like the Judiciary committee doesn't want to investigate Kavanaugh. Both are afraid further investigation will find something incriminating. The truth isn't an easy thing to get at. How many different stories have they told about the Trump Tower meeting alone?

My question to Sherkeu is do you think it is wrong to lie to the FBI or Congress? Do you think anyone should be able to lie and stonewall to either without consequences? Do you think it is ok to suborn perjury?

So far Mueller has secured 8 convictions and has another half a dozen people under indictment. Do you think that Mueller should indict Don Jr. and Jared Kushner for their crimes? Both should be sentenced to at least a year in prison. Or do you think Daddy should bail them out?
 
acbytesla said:
The goal of the investigation was never to get someone, it was to find out the ******* truth!
But Sherkeu wants it to stop before then. Just like the Judiciary committee doesn't want to investigate Kavanaugh. Both are afraid further investigation will find something incriminating. The truth isn't an easy thing to get at. How many different stories have they told about the Trump Tower meeting alone?

My question to Sherkeu is do you think it is wrong to lie to the FBI or Congress? Do you think anyone should be able to lie and stonewall to either without consequences? Do you think it is ok to suborn perjury?

So far Mueller has secured 8 convictions and has another half a dozen people under indictment. Do you think that Mueller should indict Don Jr. and Jared Kushner for their crimes? Both should be sentenced to at least a year in prison. Or do you think Daddy should bail them out?
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Investigating any group of people will turn up some things. Add in that we are looking at lawyers, lobbyists, politicians, and business people, and odds are pretty high you'll gt something. Nothing so far on collusion though.

Recall that the Whitewater investigation convicted 15 people of more than 40 crimes. I believe it clearly turned into a witchhunt that ended with a ridiculous charge of perjury for lying about a blow job. Hillary did stonewall throughout as you may recall (I don't know where those billing records are). Still, if they couldn't make it stick, they needed to end it and not go fishing for alternative 'crimes' for years.
That's something I don't want to see repeated. You can't just keep investigating indefinitely hoping something turns up.

It backfired though as Clinton's approval went up as a result of people feeling he was unfairly targeted. The economy was doing well at the time. They had wins in the 1998 midterm against all projections.

The same result could happen this time.
 
Sherkeu said:
Investigating any group of people will turn up some things. Add in that we are looking at lawyers, lobbyists, politicians, and business people, and odds are pretty high you'll gt something. Nothing so far on collusion though.

Recall that the Whitewater investigation convicted 15 people of more than 40 crimes. I believe it clearly turned into a witchhunt that ended with a ridiculous charge of perjury for lying about a blow job. Hillary did stonewall throughout as you may recall (I don't know where those billing records are). Still, if they couldn't make it stick, they needed to end it and not go fishing for alternative 'crimes' for years.
That's something I don't want to see repeated. You can't just keep investigating indefinitely hoping something turns up.

It backfired though as Clinton's approval went up as a result of people feeling he was unfairly targeted. The economy was doing well at the time. They had wins in the 1998 midterm against all projections.

The same result could happen this time.
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No, your example fails. I also don't think 15 people were convicted of Whitewater. IIRC it was about 5...But that is neither here nor there. If crimes were committed, then they should be investigated. The Clintons were never charged or proved to have lied to Congress or the investigators except Bill lying about his fooling around. There is no evidence that Hillary stonewalled about the Whitewater documents either. Just that they were found later. And yes the impeachment process DID backfire because Bill was lying about his extramarital sex not about Whitewater. People thought that was cheap. Do you really think that lying about the meeting with Russians is remotely comparable?

I also don't see how you can suggest that there wasn't collusion when the President publicly asks that the Russians hack Hillary's computer and they do it!

I doubt seriously that this Congress would ever actually start impeachment proceedings against Trump regardless of what Mueller finds. But I do think that Mueller has produced enough evidence to warrant further investigation instead of a cry to stop. Are you honestly suggesting that Manafort shouldn't go to prison for a long time for his crimes? Or that Flynn didn't betray the nation?

And you still never answered the question. Do you think that people should be able to lie to Congress and investigators about meeting with Russians seeking political favors?
 
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