Cont: Mueller Investigation pt3

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The Big Dog said:
It amazes me that after a poster provides links to the actual sources where the data can be confirmed using second grade math and other posters deliberately refuse to do so, that the original poster is falsely accused of being "disingenuous."

permit me to rebut
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Well, be less disingenuous next time, and I won't say that you're disingenuous. You'll be amazed by that, too.
 
Ziggurat said:
In general? No, of course not.

In this specific case, of the 8 non-Russians charged so far as a result of the Mueller investigation, 5 of them have been charged with making false statements, and for three of them that was the only charge.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/21/us/mueller-trump-charges.html
You can quibble about how exactly you want to do the counting, so if you want to say that's not a majority because you want to count the number of crimes charged rather than the people, go ahead. That's not a fight worth having to me. But such a heavy reliance on process charges is troubling.
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How does that compare to other FBI investigations of similar scope?
 
uke2se said:
Well, they didn't do that, so the premise of your question is false.
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Steele is an ex British agent. He traveled to Russia to acquire information from Russian sources of varying backgrounds. Do you dispute this? There are other issues with Steele as a source including the FBI had decided to stop working with him around the same time. Bruce Ohr's Wife also worked at Fusion GPS. I've heard rumors the Fisa warrant was granted using no official agency intelligence. Meaning all (or a heavy portion of it) of the information was gathered by outside (opposition?) sources, and was not verified/authenticated before being used. Lets hope Trump declassifies those documents so that the American people have the truth.

Is it smoke and water, or is there a fire. We shall see soon enough.


After Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information
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River said:
Steele is an ex British agent. He traveled to Russia to acquire information from Russian sources of varying backgrounds. Do you dispute this? There are other issues with Steele as a source including the FBI had decided to stop working with him around the same time. Bruce Ohr's Wife also worked at Fusion GPS. I've heard rumors the Fisa warrant was granted using no official agency intelligence. Meaning all of the information was gathered by outside (opposition?) sources, and was not verified/authenticated before being used. Lets hope Trump declassifies those documents so that the American people have the truth.

Is it smoke and water, or is there a fire. We shall see soon enough.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/us/politics/steele-dossier-trump-expained.html
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Steele was a subcontractor to Fusion GPS which was the firm hired by Clinton (after it was hired by Republican candidates) to find information on Trump's dealings with Russia. Clinton thus never hired Steele.

The differences between the two cases are so vast that anyone who doesn't understand it is either terminally stupid or very dishonest. Also, the "rumors" you hear in the Trump echo-chamber are best taken as complete fabrications. Do so and you'll get it right 99 times out of 100.
 
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Well, first off, the fact-finding expedition was initiated by Republicans, and only later taken over by Clinton. Republicans seem to forget that.

Secondly, it wasn't about finding "dirt", it was looking to Russia to find facts. That the facts being found were troubling enough to be of interest to the FBI is not down to Clinton.

Thirdly, Clinton didn't hire Steele, know he had been hired, or know what he was doing.

Fourthly, Steele was hired, perfectly legally, to find these facts, in exchange for money. The Trump campaign offered to change policy re Russia, which is a crime.

Fifthly, Steele's information was not stolen, unlike the "dirt" on Clinton.

Sixthly, neither Steele nor his sources were working as agents of the Kremlin, while the Trump campaign's sources were.

Seventhly, Steele went to the FBI himself, and the key figures at Fusion GPS have testified to having hired Steele and having been hired by Clinton. Trump's team didn't inform the FBI (despite having had a briefing from the FBI saying that Russia was a threat and that they were obliged to provide any information they had), and have lied about the whole process many times, including under oath.

That's probably not an exhaustive list, but it'l do for starters.
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Proof of the bold statement?
 
uke2se said:
Steele was a subcontractor to Fusion GPS which was the firm hired by Clinton (after it was hired by Republican candidates) to find information on Trump's dealings with Russia. Clinton thus never hired Steele.

The differences between the two cases are so vast that anyone who doesn't understand it is either terminally stupid or very dishonest. Also, the "rumors" you hear in the Trump echo-chamber are best taken as complete fabrications. Do so and you'll get it right 99 times out of 100.
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So congressmen, and former FBI officials are fabricating this "rumor" in your opinion?


Outgoing FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe told the committee that “no surveillance warrant would have been sought from the FISC without the Steele dossier information.”


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trey-g...uld-not-have-been-authorized-without-dossier/
 
River said:
So congressmen, and former FBI officials are fabricating this "rumor" in your opinion?


Outgoing FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe told the committee that “no surveillance warrant would have been sought from the FISC without the Steele dossier information.”


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trey-g...uld-not-have-been-authorized-without-dossier/
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No, that is not a fabricated rumour. Obviously.

The fabricated rumours are fabricated rumours.

One is not the same as the other.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
too bad that the first FISA warrants for Page happened before the Steele Dosier.
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I'm not sure it's been publicly released as to the earliest dates Page and others were under surveillance by FBI and other entities. Perhaps we will find out soon if Trump declassifies a few key documents that have been stonewalled for months.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Doubly relevant for this thread: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1038180008479608832

"NOTE: The $7.7 million the Mueller investigation has actually cost...."

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1038239993616105473
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
What did I actually say about the tweet in question?



That says $4.5m. Neither the figures of $7.7m nor $9m appear anywhere. Can you quote the part that you think supports your assertion?
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Well, be less disingenuous next time, and I won't say that you're disingenuous. You'll be amazed by that, too.
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Beautiful. The $7.7 million came from the above quoted post spamming Seth's latest lie. I then post actual links to the actual source documents for the figure quoted in the above post and our correspondent feigned inability to add two numbers together to add up to the number quoted in the above post

And then after repeatedly feigning an inability to add two numbers together to get the number that was quoted in the above post, the poster who quoted the actual source documents to show that not only was the quoted tweet grossly misleading, but also provided the actual figures to calculate the number quoted in the above is accused of being disingenuous?

"I think that's the worst thing I ever heard…how marvelous."

I said before that I find this thread absolutely fascinating.
 
River said:
Steele is an ex British agent. He traveled to Russia to acquire information from Russian sources of varying backgrounds. Do you dispute this? There are other issues with Steele as a source including the FBI had decided to stop working with him around the same time. Bruce Ohr's Wife also worked at Fusion GPS. I've heard rumors the Fisa warrant was granted using no official agency intelligence. Meaning all (or a heavy portion of it) of the information was gathered by outside (opposition?) sources, and was not verified/authenticated before being used. Lets hope Trump declassifies those documents so that the American people have the truth.

Is it smoke and water, or is there a fire. We shall see soon enough.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/us/politics/steele-dossier-trump-expained.html
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This is why I believe all or most of the Steele dossier is on shaky ground, icing on the cake being the stories about Trump's supposed sexual escapades in Moscow. Those 'anonymous Russian sources' who also claim amazing insider knowledge of the Kremlin could have easily been relayed false info.

When Comey testified that he was not prepared to confirm nor deny the veracity of the claims in the dossier nobody wanted to take "I don't know" for an answer.

Well see what happens.
 
The Big Dog said:
The $7.7 million came from the above quoted post spamming Seth's latest lie.
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This board has rules against spamming. If you think I am doing so, you should report me.

And, yes, if you don't like when you're being disingenuous being pointed out, then you should avoid being disingenuous.
 
Well, that was fun!

Now onto other news. Disgraced former FBI official Andrew McCabe who was very involved in the early stages of the Russia investigation finds himself under the microscope:

Federal prosecutors have for months been using a grand jury to investigate former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe — an indication the probe into whether he misled officials exploring his role in a controversial media disclosure has intensified, two people familiar with the matter said.
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Grand jury investigates

No reason they could not broaden it to include the Lovers too right?

Lock 'em up!
 
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