Cont: Mueller Investigation pt3

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Ziggurat said:
The crime only exists because of the investigation. Absent the investigation, there would be no crime.
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Lying to the FBI is a distinct, serious crime. Why the FBI was talking to you is irrelevant to the question of whether you lied.
 
I hadn't seen this before. Here's how Manafort's daughter describes dear old Dad:
In another bizarre twist, hackers broke into Manafort's daughter's iPhone and published four years' worth of purported text messages — roughly 300,000 messages — on the dark web.

In a series of texts reviewed by Business Insider that appear to have been sent by Andrea to her sister, Jessica, in March 2015, Andrea said their father had "no moral or legal compass."

"Don't fool yourself," Andrea wrote to her sister, according to the texts. "That money we have is blood money."

"You know he has killed people in Ukraine? Knowingly," she continued, according to the reviewed texts. "As a tactic to outrage the world and get focus on Ukraine. Remember when there were all those deaths taking place. A while back. About a year ago. Revolts and what not. Do you know whose strategy that was to cause that, to send those people out and get them slaughtered."

In another text to her cousin, who was also her father's business partner, Andrea called Manafort "a sick ********** tyrant."
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https://www.businessinsider.com/who...t-the-center-of-the-trump-russia-probe-2017-3

And he helped make D. Trump president.
 
Bob001 said:
Lying to the FBI is a distinct, serious crime. Why the FBI was talking to you is irrelevant to the question of whether you lied.
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I understand that. Now, do you understand what a perjury trap is?
 
Bob001 said:
Lying to the FBI is a distinct, serious crime. Why the FBI was talking to you is irrelevant to the question of whether you lied.
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First, lying to the FBI doesn't even mean lying to the FBI. So, it's more Stasi than anything else. It should be done away with tomorrow. This is police state stuff and I don't understand why any American would support it. If lying to the police was a felony, half the people in the country would be busy tending to the other half in prison.
 
BrooklynBaby said:
First, lying to the FBI doesn't even mean lying to the FBI. So, it's more Stasi than anything else. It should be done away with tomorrow. This is police state stuff and I don't understand why any American would support it. If lying to the police was a felony, half the people in the country would be busy tending to the other half in prison.
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It’s weird that you think lying to law enforcement is commonplace and no big deal.

Says a lot about you and the company you keep.
 
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BrooklynBaby said:
First, lying to the FBI doesn't even mean lying to the FBI. So, it's more Stasi than anything else. It should be done away with tomorrow. This is police state stuff and I don't understand why any American would support it. If lying to the police was a felony, half the people in the country would be busy tending to the other half in prison.
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Lying to any police is a crime and can be a felony, depending on the nature of the lie. Obstruction of justice is a felony.
https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2016/12/what-are-the-penalties-for-lying-to-a-cop.html

You don't have to admit to anything, or talk to cops at all without a lawyer. But you can't deliberately lie.
 
Ziggurat said:
I understand that. Now, do you understand what a perjury trap is?
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Do you understand that a so called 'perjury trap' is nonsense? That it is merely an excuse for committing perjury?

I was trapped into lying? Seriously, that's what you're going with?
 
kellyb said:
It's a myth:
https://www.questia.com/library/journal/1P3-1995143091/debunking-the-perjury-trap-myth
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This is how your source defines a perjury trap:
"A perjury trap is set when a prosecutor brings a defendant before the grand jury in order to secure a perjury indictment, rather than to indict the defendant for a previously committed crime."
That is a far more narrow definition than most people, including me, use. And that should be obvious since these cases haven't involved the defendant lying to a grand jury.
 
acbytesla said:
Do you understand that a so called 'perjury trap' is nonsense? That it is merely an excuse for committing perjury?

I was trapped into lying? Seriously, that's what you're going with?
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If only the Founding Fathers had thought of such a risk, they could have come up with an amendment to the constitution to prevent people from having to lie in order to avoid incriminating themselves.
 
acbytesla said:
Do you understand that a so called 'perjury trap' is nonsense? That it is merely an excuse for committing perjury?

I was trapped into lying? Seriously, that's what you're going with?
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I'm not excusing anyone's behavior. I'm criticizing the FBI's. Do you understand the difference? Do you not get why the FBI shouldn't be routinely pursuing people on process charges when there's no underlying crime?
 
Ziggurat said:
I'm not excusing anyone's behavior. I'm criticizing the FBI's. Do you understand the difference? Do you not get why the FBI shouldn't be routinely pursuing people on process charges when there's no underlying crime?
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This is begging the question and presupposing that there was no underlying crime.
 
jimbob said:
If only the Founding Fathers had thought of such a risk, they could have come up with an amendment to the constitution to prevent people from having to lie in order to avoid incriminating themselves.
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And this is one of the reasons that the FBI's tactics are worth criticizing. Because that's exactly what's going to happen: everybody with any sense is going to refuse to answer questions from the FBI, even if they aren't guilty, even if their testimony could help catch some other real criminal. Long term, this is counter-productive.
 
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