Cont: Mueller Investigation pt3

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theprestige said:
I've long held this same opinion. I'm just curious if we're now getting a consensus on it.
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It's the same over here, only, possibly, slightly less blatant.

I've always been unable to understand how the political system has normalised corruption to the point where one can obtain actual numbers on the payments from special interest groups to supposed representatives of the people.
 
theprestige said:
On September 14, NPR reported that Manafort's cooperation does not cover the Trump campaign:

https://twitter.com/nprpolitics/status/1040640794091237376
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The Great Zaganza said:
incorrect.
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Indeed, it is incorrect. theprestige NPR is merely parroting Giuliani's nincompoopery.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/09/paul-manafort-trump-mueller-trial/570331/

"The president’s former campaign chairman has agreed to cooperate with Special Counsel Robert Mueller in the investigation of a potential conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Moscow, prosecutors said in court on Friday, and has already proffered information to the Justice Department. Manafort also pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy and one count of conspiracy to obstruct justice, avoiding the spectacle of a second trial in Washington, D.C."
 
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3point14 said:
It's the same over here, only, possibly, slightly less blatant.

I've always been unable to understand how the political system has normalised corruption to the point where one can obtain actual numbers on the payments from special interest groups to supposed representatives of the people.
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I am somewhat in agreement where at one time I would have been in agreement without reservation. As with numerous other human behaviors, banning the relentless acquisition of capital tends to only drive the behavior underground. Making it legal means we at least are informed about it (and can make clear case for malfeasance when they hide it, since simply declaring you're doing it makes it legal).

In such a system, I put a lot of blame on the voters who keep re-electing admittedly corrupt turds.
 
theprestige said:
On September 14, NPR reported that Manafort's cooperation does not cover the Trump campaign:

https://twitter.com/nprpolitics/status/1040640794091237376
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...which is nonsense:

https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/1040635059915636736

2/ The DOJ does not let defendants cooperate as to some people but not others. If a defendant cooperates, they have to provide the government with truthful and complete answers to any question and be willing to testify in any matter they are asked to be a witness in.
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https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/1040635389365637121

3/ For that reason, Manafort is not cooperating against one person in particular—he has agreed to say everything he knows, and in order to receive a deal, he had to already begin doing so. Prosecutors don’t give deals until after the defendant provides useful info.
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https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/1040635653560651776

4/ This also means that Manafort has something of value to offer Mueller. Mueller would not have given him a deal unless Manafort was able to help Mueller make a case against someone else or significantly strengthen an existing case.
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...besides all of which, even if the tweet you linked were accurate, it wouldn't actually contradict anything I said, even slightly. So if that's the best you've got as a counter-argument, then perhaps it's time to start re-assessing your conclusions as to the significance of no indictments of Americans for conspiracy related charges?
 
theprestige said:
A lot of our politicians and jurists do seem to have come from Yale or other Ivy League schools, regardless of party. Kavanaugh and his accusers were both products of the same elite prep school culture.

Everybody made fun of Sarah Palin, but I wonder how much of what made her seem funny was the fact that she'd never been anywhere near an Ivy League institution.
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I'm leaning to the fact she is a moron, rather than the Ivy League thing.

Trump is a moron too, well worthy of mockery (despite the bizarre fact he became president). So, it's not the Ivy League education that matters.

I should say that Palin is better than Trump in one respect: she's deserves less scorn than he. Maybe less mockery, too.
 
phiwum said:
I'm leaning to the fact she is a moron, rather than the Ivy League thing.
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Yeah, it wasn't just that she wwnt to Idaho St, it's that she was a C student at Idaho St. Sure, she would have been cut some slack if she were a C student at Yale (see GWBush), but also if she were an A student at Idaho St.

Then again, were she not such a blithering idiot, she wouldn't have been a C student at Idaho St.

Make no mistake, I have no bias against non-prestigeous schools. Absolutely outstanding students come from them. Sarah Palin isn't one of them.
 
phiwum said:
I'm leaning to the fact she is a moron, rather than the Ivy League thing.

Trump is a moron too, well worthy of mockery (despite the bizarre fact he became president). So, it's not the Ivy League education that matters.

I should say that Palin is better than Trump in one respect: she's deserves less scorn than he. Maybe less mockery, too.
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I'd rather have a President Palin any day than Trump. In retrospect, McCain could have done a lot worse: he could have run with Trump as his VP candidate.
 
phiwum said:
I'm leaning to the fact she is a moron, rather than the Ivy League thing.

Trump is a moron too, well worthy of mockery (despite the bizarre fact he became president). So, it's not the Ivy League education that matters.

I should say that Palin is better than Trump in one respect: she's deserves less scorn than he. Maybe less mockery, too.
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I'm saying how much of your perception that she's a moron is simply because she doesn't have the speech and deportment that's trained into the elites from a young age and reinforced throughout their lives, in part through institutions like the Ivy League schools?
 
theprestige said:
I'm saying how much of your perception that she's a moron is simply because she doesn't have the speech and deportment that's trained into the elites from a young age and reinforced throughout their lives, in part through institutions like the Ivy League schools?
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It's mostly the incoherent ramblings and ignorant pronouncements, for me.
 
theprestige said:
I'm saying how much of your perception that she's a moron is simply because she doesn't have the speech and deportment that's trained into the elites from a young age and reinforced throughout their lives, in part through institutions like the Ivy League schools?
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BS. I grew up blue collar, went to a community college and a state school, and I don't believe or say ridiculous things like Palin does. No one is forcing her to still talk like a yokel; it's an affect that she uses with intent. She really just isn't that smart.
 
pgwenthold said:
Yeah, it wasn't just that she wwnt to Idaho St, it's that she was a C student at Idaho St. Sure, she would have been cut some slack if she were a C student at Yale (see GWBush), but also if she were an A student at Idaho St.

Then again, were she not such a blithering idiot, she wouldn't have been a C student at Idaho St.

Make no mistake, I have no bias against non-prestigeous schools. Absolutely outstanding students come from them. Sarah Palin isn't one of them.
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I assure you that I have never had any familiarity with her education or performance. I think she's incompetent and mockable because of what she actually says.

W. was mockable for how he said things, since he had a tendency to be tongue-tied, and I disagreed with many of his policies, but he never struck me as literally incompetent.

Trump is incompetent. Perot appeared both nutty and incompetent.

No one else comes immediately to mind, but I'm sure there are others. Note that while Trump and Perot were not politicians prior to their big runs, Palin was a successful politician, so I don't think that my judgment is due solely to outsider bias.
 
theprestige said:
I'm saying how much of your perception that she's a moron is simply because she doesn't have the speech and deportment that's trained into the elites from a young age and reinforced throughout their lives, in part through institutions like the Ivy League schools?
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It's the content, not the delivery.

W was nowhere near eloquent. He adopted a folksy presentation and coupled it with a tendency to be tongue-tied. He was well-known and mocked for his malapropisms.

But he wasn't mockable in anywhere near the same sense as Palin. I didn't like Bush, but he was not like Palin or Trump. And while he was Ivy educated, it didn't come out in his presentation (at least when speaking off the cuff).
 
phiwum said:
I assure you that I have never had any familiarity with her education or performance. I think she's incompetent and mockable because of what she actually says.
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Both are consistent with the view that's she's not all that smart. It is revealed both in the fact that she was not a great student at Idaho St and in what she says and does since then.
 
There was never any doubt in my mind that Trump would never willingly allow himself to be interviewed by Mueller. The reason is obvious even to his lawyers: the man cannot speak without lying. He's incapable of it, especially when he feels he is defending himself in any way. He has little self-control and would just impulsively say something that would incriminate himself. Of course, he and his supporters would cry "Perjury trap!"

By getting the questions in writing, his lawyers will edit whatever he says. We won't be getting his answers; we'll be getting his lawyers' revision of those answers.
 
Trump and Palin would have made an interesting team. They'd be vying for who could say the most idiotic, rambling and incoherent thing at a 3rd grade vocabulary level. It would be a tough call.
 
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