Mueller Investigation pt 6

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Drysdale said:
Again, what was the crime that initiated the surveillance?
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Ummm ...

Maybe this is news to you, but the authorities are at liberty to investigate potential criminal acts.

If you would care to investigate the record, then you will find a considerable number of people who are in prison as the result of investigations into their criminal acts well before these people were actually convicted of committing the criminal acts in question.
 
Crossbow said:
Ummm ...

Maybe this is news to you, but the authorities are at liberty to investigate potential criminal acts.

If you would care to investigate the record, then you will find a considerable number of people who are in prison as the result of investigations into their criminal acts well before these people were actually convicted of committing the criminal acts in question.
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And what is the criminal act again?
 
Drysdale said:
And what is the criminal act again?
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Conspiracy against the US.
Campaign Finance Violations.
Money Laundering.
Failure to register as a foreign agent.

there was evidence for all of these and more - no wonder it was easy to get multiple judges to agree to FISA and search warrants.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Conspiracy against the US.
Campaign Finance Violations.
Money Laundering.
Failure to register as a foreign agent.

there was evidence for all of these and more - no wonder it was easy to get multiple judges to agree to FISA and search warrants.
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A repeating example of that Men in Black memory wipe. :rolleyes:
 
Minoosh said:
Yeah, Mueller was cautious. I think overall that's a good thing. I'm pretty sure he laid out the case as clearly as he could. We don't know which bits we're missing due to redactions but it will all come out eventually.
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Some observers have noted that the Mueller investigation ended days after Barr became AG. There are nagging suspicions that Barr shut it down before Mueller intended. We don't know what else Mueller might have found.
https://www.politicususa.com/2019/02/20/maddow-trump-ag-shut-down-mueller-investigation.html
 
Something side-related to the Mueller investigation (I didn't think it deserved a new thread for it)...

What ever happened to the extra Manfort charges? He received ~7 years in 2 trials (generally seen as far too light.) But:

- In one trial, the jury was deadlocked on some of the charges, and they could have retried him over them
- Right after his trials on federal crimes, he was indicted on state charges in New York related to fraud

So, what happened to the deadlocked charges? Did Mueller and his team decline to follow through? If so, why?

And on the state charges... are they just going to sit idle unless needed due to a potential Trump pardon? Or is New York actively working on the case?
 
Segnosaur said:
Something side-related to the Mueller investigation (I didn't think it deserved a new thread for it)...

What ever happened to the extra Manfort charges? He received ~7 years in 2 trials (generally seen as far too light.) But:

- In one trial, the jury was deadlocked on some of the charges, and they could have retried him over them
- Right after his trials on federal crimes, he was indicted on state charges in New York related to fraud
.....
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The deadlocked charges were folded into his plea bargain.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/manafort-plea-deal-questions-823883

The state charges were just filed in March. Chances are that the process will continue for months, if not years. No rush now, but I bet if Trump pardons him prosecutors will suddenly find a need for speed.
https://nypost.com/2019/03/13/paul-manafort-indicted-on-new-fraud-charges-in-new-york/
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Conspiracy against the US.
Campaign Finance Violations.
Money Laundering.
Failure to register as a foreign agent.

there was evidence for all of these and more - no wonder it was easy to get multiple judges to agree to FISA and search warrants.
Click to expand...

That's not accurate.
The FISA were all based on the fraudulent dossier and media leaks.
And it's obviously much easier to get a FISA than was intended.
 
Crossbow said:
Team Trump has already been involved with several criminal acts which have resulted in jail time for at least some of them.
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All process crimes. Not one stating anything else.
Except Manafort, who wasn't convicted on anything related to Trump.
 
Drysdale said:
All process crimes.
......
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This "process crimes" business is right-wing silliness. Lying to investigators is a serious crime in itself. Concealing evidence is a serious crime in itself. They're called "obstructing justice," among other things. How could any suspected crime be investigated if subjects and witnesses are free to lie?
 
Lindsey Graham said:
I was one of the Republicans insisting that Mueller be allowed to do his job. I never thought it was a witch hunt. The report is in, no collusion. No -- you know, Mueller didn't do anything on obstruction.
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This was an amusing moment in Chris Wallace's interview of Lindsey Graham Sunday. I'm sure he caught himself before he repeated "no ... obstruction" and changed it to "Mueller didn't do anything on obstruction."

It was an interesting interview - Graham is not in lockstep with Trump on everything - Saudi Arabia arms "emergency," for example - so I expect Trump to tweet something at least mildly critical.
 
Bob001 said:
Some observers have noted that the Mueller investigation ended days after Barr became AG. There are nagging suspicions that Barr shut it down before Mueller intended. We don't know what else Mueller might have found.
https://www.politicususa.com/2019/02/20/maddow-trump-ag-shut-down-mueller-investigation.html
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There were also indications that Mueller was being rushed before then, for that matter. How the Manafort plea deal was handled, I think, has been poked at a few times, as an example.

Drysdale said:
That's not accurate.
The FISA were all based on the fraudulent dossier and media leaks.
And it's obviously much easier to get a FISA than was intended.
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:rolleyes:

It's amazing the lengths that Republican propaganda goes to reverse black and white, eh? It's still all about the "fraudulent dossier" in that line of propaganda despite that having repeatedly been confirmed to be a combination of outright lies.

The investigation was started based on credible and concerning intelligence passed on by our allies. The dossier came notably later.

As for the dossier, so far, the only part of it that even seems to have a decent argument against it is regarding the Cohen trip to Prague. With that said, most of the rest of it's been pretty well confirmed. Heck, after the Mueller Report, we even have evidence that strongly indicates that TRUMP believed that Russia had compromising tapes like the pee tape and took action to try to suppress them... and what's worse, that's only ONE of the ways in which it's been made perfectly clear that Trump has been compromised by foreign interests.

Spare us of your fake concern.
 
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Bob001 said:
This "process crimes" business is right-wing silliness. Lying to investigators is a serious crime in itself. Concealing evidence is a serious crime in itself. They're called "obstructing justice," among other things. How could any suspected crime be investigated if subjects and witnesses are free to lie?
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And to be clear, they did such. As stated in the Mueller Report, the lies and obstruction materially interfered with the investigation.
 
Drysdale said:
That's not accurate.
The FISA were all based on the fraudulent dossier and media leaks.
And it's obviously much easier to get a FISA than was intended.
Click to expand...

Media leaks?

Here again, that Men in Black memory eraser has erased all that information about Papadopoulos and the Aussie Ambassador and the Dossier.

I can see why. The right-wing blogosphere dominates the first two pages at least of a search for "FISA Warrant evidence Papadopoulos". All the headlines claim Obama was behind the FBI investigation. That on it's face is hard to believe. It's not like Comey and Obama were tight buddies.

But the most revealing is Nunes' memo on the FISA Warrant to surveil Carter Page. We all know Nunes was obsessed with helping Trump.

Newsweek: GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS, NOT STEELE DOSSIER, TRIGGERED INVESTIGATION INTO TRUMP CAMPAIGN: NUNES MEMO
A four-page memo released by the House Intelligence Committee on Friday alleges that the FBI and the Department of Justice used politically motivated intelligence to obtain surveillance warrants for former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser Carter Page. But the memo's final paragraph admits that federal law enforcement's probe into the Trump campaign's ties to Russia was triggered by a different loud-mouthed campaign adviser rather than the controversial Steele dossier.

“The Page FISA application also mentions information regarding fellow Trump campaign advisor George Papadopoulos, but there is no evidence of any cooperation or conspiracy between Page and Papadopoulos,” the Nunes memo reads. “The Papadopoulos information triggered the opening of an FBI counterintelligence investigation in late July 2016 by FBI agent Pete Strzok.”... In May of 2016, Papadopoulos told Alexander Downer that he knew Russia had "dirt" on Hillary Clinton. Two months later, Australia passed this information on to American intelligence officials.
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The Aussies passed the info on when the DNC emails began to be leaked.


Here's one of the typical right-wing blogosphere 'scandals' about the FISA warrant application. The Hill: Opinion piece: A convenient omission? Trump campaign adviser denied collusion to FBI source early on

Oh how scandalous it doesn't mention Papadopoulos denied there was any collusion to an agent. :rolleyes:

It does however, say this:
The FBI officially opened the Trump-Russia case on July 31, 2016, based on suspicions that Papadopoulos had prior knowledge that Russia hacked Clinton’s emails, but it quickly pivoted by early fall 2016 to evidence such as the Democratic-funded dossier produced by Christopher Steele, and Trump campaign adviser Carter Page’s trips to Moscow. The FISA warrant was drafted to target surveillance at Page but also cited Papadopoulos in a section that suggested Russia was coordinating election collusion through Page and "perhaps other individuals associated" with Trump's campaign.

“The truth is, the Papadopoulos predicate went into reversal, but rather than shut down the probe at that point, the bureau turned to other leads like Steele and Page without giving the court a full picture,” one source said.
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Then there is the issue the Trumpers want everyone to think the Dossier was discredited. In reality they have been screaming it was biased (which BTW was noted in the FISA Warrant application) while ignoring much of it has been corroborated.

Slate: The Steele Report, Revisited
How much of the infamous document ended up being corroborated elsewhere? A whole lot.

But all of this has been posted, more than once in this thread. It just keeps slipping people's minds. :cool:
 
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Bob001 said:
The deadlocked charges were folded into his plea bargain.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/manafort-plea-deal-questions-823883

The state charges were just filed in March. Chances are that the process will continue for months, if not years. No rush now, but I bet if Trump pardons him prosecutors will suddenly find a need for speed.
https://nypost.com/2019/03/13/paul-manafort-indicted-on-new-fraud-charges-in-new-york/
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I am pretty sure they will be waiting for him outside the gates of the Federal Slammer near Scranton PA, with handcuffs and a fresh jumpsuit as he leaves.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
But all of this has been posted, more than once in this thread. It just keeps slipping people's minds. :cool:
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That what happens when Trumpers shut their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears and scream "LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" as loudly as they can.

I short, they don't WANT to know the actual truth, they are only interested in "Trump Truth"TM.
 
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