Status
Not open for further replies.
Well, let's play a little game. I like dealing in evidence not slogans.

Name one widely held belief that Americans had due to Russian influence that later turned out to be false? I want specifics on this Russian disinformation campaign.

Now I came name lots of things that Americans believed to be true that later turned out to be false due to fake news from western intelligence and western media.

1) The Iraq War – A false narrative suggesting that Saddam Hussein and Osama bin-Laden were conspiring together to attack America with WMDs and nuclear weapons(Uranium Niger forged documents, mushroom clouds over American cities etc).
2) Hands-up Don’t Shoot – A false narrative suggesting that police officers were gunning down random helpless black people for no reason. “Cops and Klan go hand and hand.”
3) The War in Syria – A false narrative suggesting that we are simultaneously fighting ISIS and attempting to overthrow Assad by supporting "moderate rebels".
4) Russia hacked the election – A fake news story and investigation suggesting that Trump conspired with Russia to steal the election from Hillary.
5) Smirkgate – White MAGA wearing high school students mob a peaceful Native elder and tease and taunt him. In reality they are waiting on a bus to pick them up and were verbally accosted by Black Hebrew Israelites.

Now give me a list of Russian disinformation that can compare to western intelligence and western media BS?
Typical CTer evasion -- if you're confronted with how you have no evidence for your claim, fire off a number of unrelated claims instead and pretend you're still on topic.

"No plane hit the Pentagon!"
"Here's all the evidence we have a plane hit the Pentagon"
"What about Iran-Contra? Operation Northwood? Watergate? Why do you think the government would never lie to you?!!"
 

Quoted and itemized....

"President Trump reacted negatively to the Special Counsel's appointment. He told advisors that it was the end of his presidency, ► sought to have Attorney General Jefferson (Jeff) Sessions unrecuse from the Russia investigation ► and to have the Special Counsel removed ► and engaged in efforts to curtail the Special Counsel's investigation ► and prevent the disclosure of evidence to it, including through public and private contacts with potential witnesses.

...and this is direct from Mueller himself, yet Dear Leader's sycophantic disciples would have us all believe that none of the four highlighted acts by Trump was obstruction of justice?
 
Quoted and itemized....

"President Trump reacted negatively to the Special Counsel's appointment. He told advisors that it was the end of his presidency, ► sought to have Attorney General Jefferson (Jeff) Sessions unrecuse from the Russia investigation ► and to have the Special Counsel removed ► and engaged in efforts to curtail the Special Counsel's investigation ► and prevent the disclosure of evidence to it, including through public and private contacts with potential witnesses.

...and this is direct from Mueller himself, yet Dear Leader's sycophantic disciples would have us all believe that none of the four highlighted acts by Trump was obstruction of justice?

... and ask the White House Council to falsify the records to that this wouldn't show up.
 
"Trump is not guilty of collusion."
Evidence: I hate love Trump.

"Trump is not guilty of obstruction."
Evidence: I hate love Trump

'Trump is not Putin's puppet."
Evidence: I hate love Trump

"Trump should not be impeached."
Evidence: I hate love Trump
ftfy.

And you are not the only one. I also love Trump, but for slightly different reasons. Firstly, he's great entertainment. I google 'trump' every day hoping for more outrageous antics, and he rarely disappoints. So of course I don't want to see him impeached (not yet anyway).

Secondly, I love the way he has coaxed the Deplorables out to show us their true nature. No more pretending to be reasonable people - just full on partisanship, bigotry and general nastiness! Makes it so much easier when you know what you are dealing with.

Thirdly, I love the way he makes them twist themselves into pretzels trying to defend the indefensible. The worse Trump gets the more they twist - and the more I love it!

If there was enough evidence to convict Trump of collusion, obstruction and treason, I would be terribly disappointed. Because after he was locked up and everyone went back to pretending all is right with the World, what would I do for entertainment? And just imagine if that bitch Hillary had won - all we would hear day in and day out would be Deplorables moaning about whatever she did or didn't do - how boring would that be?
 
Secondly, I love the way he has coaxed the Deplorables out to show us their true nature. No more pretending to be reasonable people - just full on partisanship, bigotry and general nastiness! Makes it so much easier when you know what you are dealing with.

Thirdly, I love the way he makes them twist themselves into pretzels trying to defend the indefensible. The worse Trump gets the more they twist - and the more I love it!
That's actually a good point. It feels like the point in one of those hidden traitor games, like Battlestar Galactica, where the "mafia" player has decided the moment has come to stop pretending. Once that happens in those games, of course, you can't go back to pretending to be one of the good guys, because you have revealed yourself for what you are.

Depending on how things go with Trump, some of them might pretend, but to me, if you're still a Trump supporter in May 2019, you've shown your true colours. You're a bigot, or a CTer, or you have your priorities all wrong and you're willing to forsake all sorts of principles for the sake of a solution to some real or imagined problem you for some reason think Trump can, wants to, or will fix.
 
That's actually a good point. It feels like the point in one of those hidden traitor games, like Battlestar Galactica, where the "mafia" player has decided the moment has come to stop pretending. Once that happens in those games, of course, you can't go back to pretending to be one of the good guys, because you have revealed yourself for what you are.

Depending on how things go with Trump, some of them might pretend, but to me, if you're still a Trump supporter in May 2019, you've shown your true colours. You're a bigot, or a CTer, or you have your priorities all wrong and you're willing to forsake all sorts of principles for the sake of a solution to some real or imagined problem you for some reason think Trump can, wants to, or will fix.

Pretty much. A Trump supporter in 2019 is beyond all hope. All we can do is minimize the damage that their stupidity can do to the world.
 
I know ChrisBFRPKY hates examples of how the Law actually works and proves him wrong, but here we go for those that aren't wearing blinders.

John is a thief and one night breaks into a house belonging to Charlie. While he is there, he sees Bob arrive and get in an argument with Charlie, which leads to Bob drawing a gun and shooting and killing Charlie.

Later the Police pick up John as a witness.

What are John's rights?

He has no right to have Miranda read to him because he is a witness, not a suspect. Should that change, the police need to read him Miranda as soon as they suspect him.

He can just refuse the interview.

He does have the right to not be questioned without a Lawyer, or to clearly state that he will no longer answer questions without a Lawyer. As a witness he will be required to provide his own Lawyer.

He has the right to leave the Interview at any point.

Once he has a Lawyer, the lawyer can answer questions for him, and advice him which to answer and which to not do so, most likely questions about the reason he was there.

Later on Bob is arrested for the murder.

What are Bob's Rights?

Before he is questioned, Bob must be read Miranda, because he is a suspect. This does not have to occur at the time of arrest, but does have to happen prior to any questioning.

Like John, Bob has the right to not answer questions without a Lawyer, however he does not have to provide one himself, he can use a public defender, or if he is lucky, have a lawyer assigned to him as part of their pro bono work (the former is more likely).

Bob cannot leave the interview whenever he likes.

Like John, once Bob has a Lawyer, the lawyer can answer questions for him, and advice him which to answer and which to not do so.

Eventually the Trial arrives and John is subpoenaed as a witness. (Note that this is the same for both a Trial and a Grand Jury Summons.)

John must appear at the court ready to testify.

During the trial John is called to the stand and placed under oath.

John has the right to plead the 5th to any question that would reveal why he was there, since this was a criminal act and thus he would incriminate himself.

John does not have the right to refuse to answer any questions that would not reveal his purpose for being there. Doing so could end up with him being held in contempt of court, resulting in a fine or even jail time.

His pleading the 5th to any question will not end his testifying, and he can only leave when allowed to stand down by the Judge. Unless the questioning goes on for some time requiring breaks, this will be after questioning by the side that subpoenaed him, followed by cross-examination by the other side, and finally the possibility of re-direct by the initial side. (Note: in the case of a Grand Jury, the Prosecutor will ask questions followed by possible questions from the Jury members. The Defense is not present.)

Bob on the other hand cannot be compelled to take the stand in his own defense should he not wish too. (And in the case of a Grand Jury, it is unlikely that he will even appear, though he can choose too)

Should Bob take the stand, he may, if he wishes, plead the 5th to any question that would incriminate him.

Just as with John, pleading the 5th to any question will not end his testifying, and he can only to return the dock/defense table when allowed to stand down by the Judge.

Hopefully this helps people that are confused by certain poster's BS and anti-legal claims about the real uses of the 5th and Miranda, and how you can act when a witness or a suspect/defendant.

It is disturbing to witness the lengths you went to in concocting all these hypothetical situations in an effort to prove me wrong about something you should have learned in 6th grade Civics class. I don't know how you did in that class but you've failed here.

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-righ...r-questions-asked-by-law-enforcement-officers

From the ACLU:

"Do I have to answer questions asked by law enforcement officers? No. You have the constitutional right to remain silent. In general, you do not have to talk to law enforcement officers (or anyone else), even if you do not feel free to walk away from the officer, you are arrested, or you are in jail. You cannot be punished for refusing to answer a question. It is a good idea to talk to a lawyer before agreeing to answer questions. In general, only a judge can order you to answer questions."
Excuse me while I do yet another victory lap to the seething dismay of Liberals everywhere.

Chris B.
 
Chris, we aren't talking about Trump being arrested and questioned by Good Cop / Bad Cop with a lamp shiny in his face.
We are talking committee hearings, interviews with prosecutors (with lawyers present), perhaps Grand Jury testimonials.

Don't confuse that with your Police Procedural TV show stuff.
 
It is disturbing to witness the lengths you went to in concocting all these hypothetical situations in an effort to prove me wrong about something you should have learned in 6th grade Civics class. I don't know how you did in that class but you've failed here.

PM's "hypotheticals" as you called them, were no such thing. They were simply illustrations of the application of 5A and Miranda, put together to show you how and why you are wrong.... and you are wrong!

"Do I have to answer questions asked by law enforcement officers? No. You have the constitutional right to remain silent. In general, you do not have to talk to law enforcement officers (or anyone else), even if you do not feel free to walk away from the officer, you are arrested, or you are in jail. You cannot be punished for refusing to answer a question. It is a good idea to talk to a lawyer before agreeing to answer questions. In general, only a judge can order you to answer questions."

You are implying that the 5th amendment or Miranda somehow gave Trump the right to obstruct an investigation. They did not, and they cannot..... any year-one Law student can tell you this.

The facts are that Trump HAD NO SUCH RIGHT. Obstructing any official investigation is a criminal offence, no matter whether he thought it was valid or not; no matter whether he thought he was innocent or not.

Excuse me while I do yet another victory lap to the seething dismay of Liberals everywhere.

Your hubris is matched only by your arrogance and your misplaced and overestimated confidence in your own ability.

Chris, we aren't talking about Trump being arrested and questioned by Good Cop / Bad Cop with a lamp shiny in his face.
We are talking committee hearings, interviews with prosecutors (with lawyers present), perhaps Grand Jury testimonials.

Don't confuse that with your Police Procedural TV show stuff.

When you get all your law knowledge from episodes of "Criminal Intent" that's all you've got.
 
I can sum up the rigorous logic and evidence-based standards by the police state liberals that inhabit these forums.

"Trump is guilty of collusion."
Evidence: I hate Trump.

"Trump is guilty of obstruction."
Evidence: I hate Trump

'Trump is Putin's puppet."
Evidence: I hate Trump

"Trump should be impeached."
Evidence: I hate Trump

Hey, I can play that game, too:

"Trump is not guilty of collusion."
Evidence: Trump has an (R) beside his name.

"Trump is not guilty of obstruction."
Evidence: Trump has an (R) beside his name.

'Trump is not Putin's puppet."
Evidence: Trump has an (R) beside his name.

"Trump should not be impeached."
Evidence: Trump has an (R) beside his name.
 
If you'll buy that, I've got a Russian Consulate in Miami, FL. to sale you.

The reason I "buy" it is that the evidence is there to show that it has value. You can't pretend that evidence doesn't exist just because it's inconvenient to you. That Trump has an (R) beside his name shouldn't dominate your thinking process about him, regardless of where you sit on the political spectrum on any issue.

The Trump tower meeting was arranged by Rob Goldstone, the one time publicist for John Denver and the current publicist of Azerbaijani pop-star Emin Agalarov. He claimed to have information that would incriminate Hillary Clinton in her dealings with Russia. He didn't. Obviously big bad Vlad Putin would use a British tabloid reporter to get dirt on Hillary Clinton out into the world. Ludicrous! However, the meeting was with a Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, and she had no dirt on Clinton whatsoever. She came to talk about repealing the Magnitsky Act. The meeting lasted 20-30 minutes and everyone left. Treason!!!

Attempting to commit a crime and failing is still a crime.

I like dealing in evidence not slogans.

Clearly not.
 
Last edited:
No, the Mueller investigation was a coup attempt and the coup failed.

Now you're squarely in la-la land. The investigation had no power to remove the president regardless of what it found. It makes no sense to call it a coup, especially since it was launched by Republicans!

As I said earlier, you really need to educate yourself on this issue, and not from Fox News or Breitbart.

Now how exactly did Putin help Trump win?

He tried to help him win, at the very least, with a dedicated online disinformation and propaganda campaign.

Did you even read all those intelligence findings? Again as I said before, keeping yourself ignorant of the evidence doesn't magically make you correct when you pretend that the evidence doesn't exist.

Name one widely held belief that Americans had due to Russian influence that later turned out to be false?

Why the addition of "widely"? You asked how Russia helped, and now you're raising the bar, presumably because you know how easily the previous one will be cleared.

Stop playing games.
 
Last edited:
Is it your premise that a paid investigator can't possibly collect evidence? :rolleyes:

And I'll just repeat this post. Whenever you find your memory wiped I'll be glad to post it again.

... and I'll just repeat this, which you snipped (so you could ignore it) from the post you're replying to;

...
The obvious question to be asked is; who paid Steele and his firm for their endeavours? (Obvious it might be, but it never seems to occur to many of the sub-geniuses here.)...
 
Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
...
"The obvious question to be asked is; who paid Steele and his firm for their endeavours?"

This has no relevance to the Mueller investigation. If I hire a private investigator to find dirt on my ex-wife because I hate her, and the PI stumbles upon a murder she's committed, the motivation of my hiring the PI does not matter to her murder trial.

However, to answer your question as to who paid Steele, it was The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida.
 
Last edited:
From the ACLU:

"Do I have to answer questions asked by law enforcement officers?

No. You have the constitutional right to remain silent. In general, you do not have to talk to law enforcement officers (or anyone else), even if you do not feel free to walk away from the officer, you are arrested, or you are in jail. You cannot be punished for refusing to answer a question. It is a good idea to talk to a lawyer before agreeing to answer questions. In general, only a judge can order you to answer questions."

I can think of at least one exception.

I was an accident investigator in FL. FL law requires that one provide truthful information regarding traffic accidents. To refuse is a crime. The key is, nothing that is provided to the investigator during the investigation phase is admissible in court, so that such testimony cannot serve to incriminate. If the investigator decides a transition to a criminal investigation is warranted, it is at that point that Miranda is read, and the person involved in the accident may exercise his or her rights. Stipulated that the law may be different in different states.

My point is it’s dangerous to assume you never have to answer an officer’s questions - there are times that you do.
 
Last edited:
I see that Mueller is to make a public statement today at 11 am ET at the DoJ, and there seems to have been no mention of it here.

Any thoughts on what he might say? He has played his cards so close to his chest that I can't imaging any bombshells, but we live in hope.
 
He's going to give us some carefully worded language which legally-speaking will translate to "Trump is a dick and should be in jail," but it won't say that explicitly so the media won't have any juicy sound bites to play and we'll all have forgotten about this tomorrow.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom