Mueller Investigation pt 6

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kellyb said:
I'm honestly (no sarcasm) confused. Is it your position that the claim "Certainly the US interferes in countries around the world and it is always viewed as a good thing" is untrue, or just that it's irrelevant to the topic at hand? (I think it's obviously true, but also irrelevant to what we're discussing.)
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It is of course true that the US interferes in the affairs of other countries. It is ridiculous to assert, however, that this interference is "always viewed as a good thing."
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Seems to be the typical layered CT. They have conspiracy theories to protect their conspiracy theories, anyone and anything proving them wrong become part of the conspiracy.

It's interesting, though, how much they love being contrarians. The Russia story has all the ingredients they love: corrupt leaders, a cabal of unscrupolous officials, money and greed, shady international dealings, and democracy at risk.

But of course, it ain't no fun to believe what everyone ekse already belieces, so of course when they finally encounter a real conspiracy, they make up a CT that there is no conspiracy.
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I've been saying for years that most CTers don't believe their theories at all. It's just a LARP to them; a way to have some excitement in their meaningless lives.

The way I inject some excitement in my meaningless life is to watch movies or play video games.
 
Conspiracy theories used to at least make internal consistency, they just fell apart when you introduced reality to them.

Now they don't even make their own sense.

I think it's just a broad anti-intellectual performance art act.
 
cmikes said:
Have you actually read the full report? Just a few sentences later the context is clearly explained.




From the full context, it's obvious that Trump isn't worried about being guilty of anything, but about an investigation delaying and undermining his policies, exactly as intended by the Democrats. The whole quote, in context, makes it clear that Trump wasn't worried about what a special prosecutor would find, but was worried that it would be used as cudgel against his presidency, again, exactly as intended.

This is just yet more evidence that the investigation was explicitly political in nature, rather than being concerned about any crimes.
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But fighting tooth and nail hiding stuff, instead of being fully cooperative--if he really believed himself and others to be innocent--would speed things along and redound to his benefit.

Nope. He bloody well knew bad stuff was going to be unearthed. As it *actually did*.

You can't take what we now know and spin that into the narrative of an innocent man merely fretting about bad optics of the process of an investigation.
 
Lurch said:
But fighting tooth and nail hiding stuff, instead of being fully cooperative--if he really believed himself and others to be innocent--would speed things along and redound to his benefit.

Nope. He bloody well knew bad stuff was going to be unearthed. As it *actually did*.

You can't take what we now know and spin that into the narrative of an innocent man merely fretting about bad optics of the process of an investigation.
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But that doesn't stop them from trying! And failing miserably.
 
Mumbles said:
Yeah, so:

Solitary is awful. It's only made necessary because of the horrific conditions of Rikers.

And that leads me to reiterate: Rikers should be shut down as quickly as possible.
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I agree with this. Just because a scumbag like Manafort is headed there, that doesn't give me any joy in his condition.

I used to say that you can judge a society by how well they treat their animals, but having heard someone smarter than me say it, I have added "and their prisoners."
 
kellyb said:
I'm honestly (no sarcasm) confused. Is it your position that the claim "Certainly the US interferes in countries around the world and it is always viewed as a good thing" is untrue, or just that it's irrelevant to the topic at hand? (I think it's obviously true, but also irrelevant to what we're discussing.)
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The part I was reacting to was "it is always viewed as a good thing." That's not "obviously true" to me.
 
carlitos said:
I agree with this. Just because a scumbag like Manafort is headed there, that doesn't give me any joy in his condition.

I used to say that you can judge a society by how well they treat their animals, but having heard someone smarter than me say it, I have added "and their prisoners."
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I agreed.
And to annoy some people, I will tell you that so does AOC.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AOC/status/1136273861715120129
Paul Manafort is being sent to solitary confinement in my district - Rikers Island.

A prison sentence is not a license for gov torture and human rights violations. That‘s what solitary confinement is.

Manafort should be released, along with all people being held in solitary.
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cmikes said:
Have you actually read the full report? Just a few sentences later the context is clearly explained.




From the full context, it's obvious that Trump isn't worried about being guilty of anything, but about an investigation delaying and undermining his policies, exactly as intended by the Democrats. The whole quote, in context, makes it clear that Trump wasn't worried about what a special prosecutor would find, but was worried that it would be used as cudgel against his presidency, again, exactly as intended.

This is just yet more evidence that the investigation was explicitly political in nature, rather than being concerned about any crimes.
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Um...WTF report did you read?
 
Minoosh said:
The part I was reacting to was "it is always viewed as a good thing." That's not "obviously true" to me.
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Ah. I took that part as somewhat tongue in cheek, and somewhat referring to how large swaths of the media and population reliably cheer-lead for such interference.
 
cmikes said:
Drawing flak. Must be over the target. The Mueller investigation was an extension of the spying surveillance operation against the Trump campaign ordered by the Obama DOJ. Andrew McCarthy at National Review puts it better than I ever could.

National Review











The only reason the Obama DOJ went through the FISA court was because they were worried that a criminal judge would ask too many questions about the source of their information.
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None of this is true and it's certainly not reflected in the Mueller report. This is simply a dodge to get around the egregious behavior of Trump and his subordinates in colluding with Russians and obstructing justice. You should really read the actual report.
 
Upchurch said:
*two days later*

Does "take a while to address properly" mean "Damn, I guess I have to actually read this thing now"?
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If I may chime in ...

I think that you and 'Ziggurat' may be talking past each other.

In my experience, I have found that almost always he is really focused on one detail in a much larger conversation and that his defense of that one detail can come across as defending a bad position.

I know that this sort of thing has happened between he and I in the past. And when it was finally resolved, it turned out that we were actually in agreement the whole time.

Therefore, if I may suggest in the future, if 'Ziggurat' posts something that you find to be really odd in the face of the facts that have been clearly presented, then simply ask him to clarify his posting. I have found this approach to be most useful.

I hope this helps!
 
Crossbow said:
If I may chime in ...

I think that you and 'Ziggurat' may be talking past each other.

In my experience, I have found that almost always he is really focused on one detail in a much larger conversation and that his defense of that one detail can come across as defending a bad position.

I know that this sort of thing has happened between he and I in the past. And when it was finally resolved, it turned out that we were actually in agreement the whole time.

Therefore, if I may suggest in the future, if 'Ziggurat' posts something that you find to be really odd in the face of the facts that have been clearly presented, then simply ask him to clarify his posting. I have found this approach to be most useful.

I hope this helps!
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Why would I need more information if I know I'm right?

/s
 
tanabear said:
This evidence is not clear and you should trust our intelligence agencies in the same way you trust the shepherd boy in Aesop's fable.
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You mean that, no matter what, you should entertain the possibility that the intelligence reports are accurate, because even the shepherd boy faithfully reported a wolf's appearance in the end?
 
Crossbow said:
...

Therefore, if I may suggest in the future, if 'Ziggurat' posts something that you find to be really odd in the face of the facts that have been clearly presented, then simply ask him to clarify his posting. I have found this approach to be most useful.

I hope this helps!
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No, doubling down on some cherry-picked distortion that supports one's position does not help.
 
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