MSG - Should it be banned?

danofmayz said:
For those of you who are unfamiliar with this chemical compound, Monosodium glutamate is a non-essential amino acid used as a food additive.

It is commonly known to be a flavour enhancer which tricks the brain into thinking what you are eating is actually good for you or flavorsome.
It has been said to have many symptoms including depression. China are currently the biggest exponents of MSG who, coincidentally or not, have the highest rate of suicide in the world.

I, personally, cannot eat any foods containing MSG as I am almost certain it is a trigger for my migraine attacks.

How dangerous is this 'flavour enhancer'?

It would be great to hear your thoughts.
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What's the difference between flavor and the perception of flavor?
 
John Jones said:
Oh really? I think you're full of male bovine excrement.

I bid you a good day.
:D
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Then I suggest you touch base with your high school organic chemistry teacher and review your notes.

Back on topic, there is no reason to ban MSG. There is sound evidence that elevated serum glutamate levels strongly correlates to increased suffering for those who are genetically predisposed to migraine and fibromyalgia, but for the rest of the world, there is also evidence that not only is it harmless, it can actually be quite beneficial as an appetite stimulant and digestive aid.

"The results suggest that large doses of MSG given without food may elicit more symptoms than a placebo in individuals who believe that they react adversely to MSG. However, the frequency of the responses was low and the responses reported were inconsistent and were not reproducible. The responses were not observed when MSG was given with food."
Review of Alleged Reaction to Monosodium Glutamate and Outcome of a Multicenter Double-Blind Placebo-Controlled Study

"Treatment with MSG induces a dose-dependent swelling and death of mature neurons (12-14 days in culture) with little effect on young immature neurons (<1 week in culture). The threshold concentration of MSG for neuronal injury is 3 microM…"
Deciphering the MSG controversy

"Plasma levels of glutamate were significantly higher in migraine patients—either before (61.79 ± 18.75 μmol/l) or after prophylactic treatment (17.64 ± 5.08 μmol/l)— than in controls (9.36 ± 2.1 μmol/l) (P < 0.05, ANOVA followed by Newman-Keuls' test). After prophylactic treatment, with headache frequency reduced, plasma glutamate levels were significantly lower in the same patient with respect to the prior baseline level (P < 0.0001, Student's t-test for paired data), without any differences depending on the kind of prophylactic drug."
Effective Prophylactic Treatments of Migraine Lower Plasma Glutamate Levels

"Patients overall had higher CSF glutamate levels than controls. Mean pain score correlated with glutamate levels in chronic migraine patients."
Cerebrospinal Fluid Glutamate Levels in Chronic Migraine

"No muscle pain or robust changes in mechanical sensitivity were detected, but there was a significant increase in reports of headache and subjectively reported pericranial muscle tenderness after MSG. Systolic BP was elevated in the high MSG session compared with low MSG and placebo."
Effect of Systemic Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) on Headache and Pericranial Muscle Sensitivity
 
leonAzul said:
Then I suggest you touch base with your high school organic chemistry teacher and review your notes.

Back on topic, there is no reason to ban MSG. There is sound evidence that elevated serum glutamate levels strongly correlates to increased suffering for those who are genetically predisposed to migraine and fibromyalgia, but for the rest of the world, there is also evidence that not only is it harmless, it can actually be quite beneficial as an appetite stimulant and digestive aid.

"The results suggest that large doses of MSG given without food may elicit more symptoms than a placebo in individuals who believe that they react adversely to MSG. However, the frequency of the responses was low and the responses reported were inconsistent and were not reproducible. The responses were not observed when MSG was given with food."
Review of Alleged Reaction to Monosodium Glutamate and Outcome of a Multicenter Double-Blind Placebo-Controlled Study

"Treatment with MSG induces a dose-dependent swelling and death of mature neurons (12-14 days in culture) with little effect on young immature neurons (<1 week in culture). The threshold concentration of MSG for neuronal injury is 3 microM…"
Deciphering the MSG controversy

"Plasma levels of glutamate were significantly higher in migraine patients—either before (61.79 ± 18.75 μmol/l) or after prophylactic treatment (17.64 ± 5.08 μmol/l)— than in controls (9.36 ± 2.1 μmol/l) (P < 0.05, ANOVA followed by Newman-Keuls' test). After prophylactic treatment, with headache frequency reduced, plasma glutamate levels were significantly lower in the same patient with respect to the prior baseline level (P < 0.0001, Student's t-test for paired data), without any differences depending on the kind of prophylactic drug."
Effective Prophylactic Treatments of Migraine Lower Plasma Glutamate Levels

"Patients overall had higher CSF glutamate levels than controls. Mean pain score correlated with glutamate levels in chronic migraine patients."
Cerebrospinal Fluid Glutamate Levels in Chronic Migraine

"No muscle pain or robust changes in mechanical sensitivity were detected, but there was a significant increase in reports of headache and subjectively reported pericranial muscle tenderness after MSG. Systolic BP was elevated in the high MSG session compared with low MSG and placebo."
Effect of Systemic Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) on Headache and Pericranial Muscle Sensitivity
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Wow! That's quite a bit of evidence in contradiction to a point I never made.

Would you like some MSG with that rant? :D
 
I often wonder about the effect MSG has on flavour. Whilst it isn't banned, a lot of products seem to be dropping it nowadays e.g. stockcubes and instant noodles. I've noticed these things don't taste as good as I remember them but I'm not sure if its because they used to contain MSG or if its because the salt levels have been reduced, perhaps both ?
 
danofmayz said:
It is commonly known to be a flavour enhancer which tricks the brain into thinking what you are eating is actually good for you ...
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Perhaps I am misinterpreting your post, but this claim seems to me to be implying that there are foods which the brain can recognize (through sensory input) as being good for you. Is that your position?
 
Ladewig said:
Perhaps I am misinterpreting your post, but this claim seems to me to be implying that there are foods which the brain can recognize (through sensory input) as being good for you. Is that your position?
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Doesn't it though? Not directly, of course, but if your brain recognizes things that are bad for as tasting bad, you're less likely to eat them and get sick.

OTOH, if things that are good for you taste good, you eat more.
 
Tracy Dalziel said:
I often wonder about the effect MSG has on flavour. Whilst it isn't banned, a lot of products seem to be dropping it nowadays e.g. stockcubes and instant noodles. I've noticed these things don't taste as good as I remember them but I'm not sure if its because they used to contain MSG or if its because the salt levels have been reduced, perhaps both ?
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There are several reasons MSG has been dropped from many products. The first being this stupid mythical idea that MSG is somehow causing illness (which, as demonstrated by the myriad of studies on the subject, is total bunk). Because of that myth, people are (irrationally) afraid to buy products with MSG in them. They even go further than the original claims of headaches and racing hearts, and blow these myths up to outrageous proportions by imagining that MSG causes brain tumors (yes, someone actually made that claim to me once). So, removing MSG is a public relations move that companies make.

The second is that MSG is extremely high in sodium, and many products are attempting to reduce their salt content to be more in line with "healthier" options.

As for why they don't taste as good anymore, yes, it's because of both.

Glutamates are extremely flavorful. There's a specific protein receptor in the tongue (not that I remember the name at the moment) designed to pick up that flavor. It's what makes things taste "meaty".

Salt enhances that flavor, as well as other flavors within a food.

So, when you lower the glutamate content, or the salt content, or both, in a food, you lower the overall flavor of that food.
 
tesscaline said:
there are several reasons msg has been dropped from many products. The first being this stupid mythical idea that msg is somehow causing illness (which, as demonstrated by the myriad of studies on the subject, is total bunk). Because of that myth, people are (irrationally) afraid to buy products with msg in them. They even go further than the original claims of headaches and racing hearts, and blow these myths up to outrageous proportions by imagining that msg causes brain tumors (yes, someone actually made that claim to me once). So, removing msg is a public relations move that companies make.

The second is that msg is extremely high in sodium, and many products are attempting to reduce their salt content to be more in line with "healthier" options.

.
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hahahahahaha!
 
ehcks said:
Doesn't it though? Not directly, of course, but if your brain recognizes things that are bad for as tasting bad, you're less likely to eat them and get sick.

OTOH, if things that are good for you taste good, you eat more.
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Well, yes. The brain doesn't specifically recognise a substance as good or bad but taste can be a rule of thumb and its an example of a behaviuoral response that would increase survival. It isn't always as simple as that though, a lot of people don't like certain perfectly healthy foods and some poisons are known to be tasteless or even palatable.
 
John Jones said:
That's a false dichotomy, tesscaline.

Is MSG really EXTREMELY HIGH in sodium?
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Well, comparatively speaking, yes. 12% sodium is pretty darned high. Sure, it's less than straight table salt (39%), but that's about as concentrated sodium-wise as you get in food :) MSG is about the next concentrated sodium-wise, as you get in food, after table salt.

Do you have evidence to contradict the above? If so, I'd love to see it. I could send it to my nutrition professor from culinary school, and she might stop teaching students incorrect information (if it is, indeed, incorrect as you appear to be implying).

Edit: Just did some digging to verify my own statements --

Table salt: ~40% sodium
Baking soda: ~30% sodium
MSG: ~12% sodium
Baking powder: ~10% sodium

Yep, MSG is pretty high up there, sodium wise :)
 
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Red3 said:
No, it shouldn't be banned. There's no reason for it to be banned as there's no evidence that it is unsafe. There is some anecdotal evidence to suggest some people have an intolerance to it, but that's not exactly concrete, and even it it were it's no reason to ban something. Mushrooms can bring on asthma attacks and peanuts can send people into anaphylactic shock but there isn't a witch hunt on those things.
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Here in the US, there are ENTIRE public schools where PEANUTS are totally banned because one student is peanut-sensitive...
Just sayin'...:D

IMO, the people (not necessarily the people with allergies,intolerance) who worry about msg or blame it for their health problems might want to take a look at their diets in general; MSG is in a lot of processed food and if their health is suffering for some undiagnosed reason, they might want to look at the crap they're shovelling into their mouths in general. Just saying...
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Yep.
Red3 said:
The phrase "throw enough mud and some of it will stick" comes to mind.
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:D
PixyMisa said:
And if I eat more than the tiniest amount of bread or pasta, I'm in for an utterly miserable time a few hours later. Ban it all!
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I read that Coeliacs[sp?] (I think that is "gluten sensitivity", not sure) tolerate MSG quite well. Is that what you have?
BenBurch said:
When MSG is outlawed, only outlaws will eat well.
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Good point!;)

Cheers,

Dave
 
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John Jones said:
As far as I know, healthy people do not metabolize sugar into ethanol. People do metabolize protein into the constituent amino acids.

I'm not saying that MSG sensitivity is baseless, but I've got some problems with the idea.

Glutamic acid is one of the major amino acids present in almost every source of protein I have studied. Collagen is one exception that comes to mind.

If people like the OP cannot eat monosodium glutamate, how can they eat any protein?

I'm just asking.
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John Jones said:
Wow! That's quite a bit of evidence in contradiction to a point I never made.
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You have problems with the idea, so I showed some evidence for what about it is scientific and what about it has been entirely been misinterpreted by the OP.

John Jones said:
Would you like some MSG with that rant? :D
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Some evidence would suffice.

The average human digestive system produces approximately 3g of ethanol per day merely through fermentation of its contents.
 
tesscaline said:
Well, comparatively speaking, yes. 12% sodium is pretty darned high. Sure, it's less than straight table salt (39%), but that's about as concentrated sodium-wise as you get in food :) MSG is about the next concentrated sodium-wise, as you get in food, after table salt.

Do you have evidence to contradict the above? If so, I'd love to see it. I could send it to my nutrition professor from culinary school, and she might stop teaching students incorrect information (if it is, indeed, incorrect as you appear to be implying).

Edit: Just did some digging to verify my own statements --

Table salt: ~40% sodium
Baking soda: ~30% sodium
MSG: ~12% sodium
Baking powder: ~10% sodium

Yep, MSG is pretty high up there, sodium wise :)
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MSG is next to last, and a distant third on your list, sodium wise. Take that to your nutrition professor and get out of my face.
 
ehcks said:
Doesn't it though? Not directly, of course, but if your brain recognizes things that are bad for as tasting bad, you're less likely to eat them and get sick.

OTOH, if things that are good for you taste good, you eat more.
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Yes, I wasn't clear. I have heard people say, if I have a craving for a food, then that is a sign my body needs the nutrients, vitamins, and minerals found in that particular food. That claim is false. Perhaps I was leaping too far from one idea to another in trying to make the link between these ideas.


Raw lemons, spinach, and broccoli are good for the average person, but most people
who are completely ignorant of nutrition do not put these foods in their mouths and say, "Aha, this food is good for my body." Similarly, a diet of nothing but apples might be very tasty but is not healthy.

In any case, I do take issue with the idea that MSG somehow tricks the brain.
 
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