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Ed Moving On is coming.

Russell Pickering said:
What precedent do we have for such a thing to even have factored into an intuitive "assessment"?
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The fact that every other plane that was hijacked that day hit a high-value target, and Flight 93 crashed into a field in the middle of nowhere, PA. Obviously, something prevented the hijackers from reaching their intended target as the field was of no value. Hardly requires psychic powers or inside knowledge.
 
Nevermore,

Nevermore said:
Sorry to interrupt, but do you have a link for this? I would like to read more about it.

I was curious if the cockpit voice recorder also captured the sound of the terrorists breaking into the cockpit.
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If somebody does provide the CVR transcript note that it also records the passenger cabin. Then go and study the recording mechanism and how it records. I would like to hear an opinion on this.

Russell
 
here is something interesting, maybe someone could look into.

At time = 9:45:16 one of the hijackers on flight 93 says "seven thousand". Now, could that be matched to the approximate altitude given by the flight data recorder for the flight?

TAM
 
Russell, you are the one accusing Cheney of being indirectly complicit in the attacks. The burden of proof is on you.
 
Russ:

What is picked up is very little, and it may have been faint. The Cockpit Voice recorder is located in the middle of the cockpit, in the ceiling is it not. We asked a 747 Pilot over at the SLC Forum whether it could pick up voices outside the cockpit door if they were yelling or speaking loudly, and he said yes.

TAM
 
Wildcat,

WildCat said:
The fact that every other plane that was hijacked that day hit a high-value target, and Flight 93 crashed into a field in the middle of nowhere, PA. Obviously, something prevented the hijackers from reaching their intended target as the field was of no value. Hardly requires psychic powers or inside knowledge.
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Except they were trying to assess if it was shot down which was the most logical assumption at that moment in context. The leap from that logic to a very interesting "assessment" that corresponded to the truth that we were later told is what I inquire about.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/11/ar911.king.cheney/index.html

Russell
 
For the Cockpit Voice Recorder to be faked, you are then saying that the courts accepted, as did the defense, a falsified exhibit. Now if there was any doubt, by anyone in the courtroom, incluidng the defense, whose purpose is to scrutinize the prosecution evidence, you think they would have had an expert confirm the validity of the Voice recorder data.

Seems a bit unrealistic that a faked Voice Recorder recording passed through the defense without getting it confirmed, or analyzed.

TAM
 
Russell Pickering said:
Wildcat,



Except they were trying to assess if it was shot down which was the most logical assumption at that moment in context. The leap from that logic to a very interesting "assessment" that corresponded to the truth that we were later told is what I inquire about.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/11/ar911.king.cheney/index.html

Russell
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You're assuming that Cheney wouldn't think a military pilot shooting down a civilian airliner to prevent an even worse disaster was a hero.

Someone else here has the details, but some of the military planes that were sent to intercept that day weren't even armed. The pilots are on record as saying they were willing to crash into them to bring them down if necessary, it really doesn't get any more heroic than that.
 
"The CVR records the flight crew's voices, as well as other sounds inside the cockpit. The recorder's "cockpit area microphone" is usually located on the overhead instrument panel between the two pilots. Sounds of interest to an investigator could be engine noise, stall warnings, landing gear extension and retraction, and other clicks and pops."

I don't know much about 93 so I don't know what was actually recorded. That is why I asked for an opinion.

Thank you.
 
One more thing Russell: If the plane had been shot down, the debris would be spread out over dozens, if not hundreds of square miles (depending on altitude). You wouldn't find it all concentrated in a small area.
 
ok, I agree with that posting of where the CVR is and what an investigator of a crash would be interested in hearing.

So clicks and pops can be picked up, I would imagine bangs on the cockpit door as well as people yelling "Into the cockpit" "if we don't we die" might be picked up, perhaps not as loud as some other noises, but our 747 pilot tells us it should be able to pick up such noises (Billzilla I believe told us this over at SLC Forum).

You are welcome

TAM
 
WildCat said:
One more thing Russell: If the plane had been shot down, the debris would be spread out over dozens, if not hundreds of square miles (depending on altitude). You wouldn't find it all concentrated in a small area.
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With lots of large pieces! Why do they always miss this?
 
So the other option is that he thought at the time it was a heroic story about a shootdown pilot or the United pilots, but then those turned out not to be true. Then we have another coincidence to explain which is that the story ended up being a story of heroism in another form than the reasonable assumptions.

But if you review the article again it was said in the context of, "'The vice president was a little bit ahead of us,' said Eric Edelman, Cheney's national security advisor." That implies to me it is being directly linked to the actual outcome of the Flight 93 story as it has been relayed to us.
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Wildcat,

If we can add this to the coincidence column and disregard the apparent intent of the article then fine.

But they do add up after a while.

Russell
 
Russell Pickering said:
Wildcat,

If we can add this to the coincidence column and disregard the apparent intent of the article then fine.

But they do add up after a while.

Russell
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I agree there are some coincidences, but in a situation, an attack as complex and as multipronged as 9/11, with so many people/places/variables involved, the number of acceptable coincidences has to rise dramatically, from let us say a simple single car suicide bombing.

TAM
 
There are reports of a larger debris field.

But lets say not.

If a heat seeking missile ripped off only one engine from the pylon then the rest of the plane remains intact for the impact you describe.

That is similar to the scene.

One engine some distance forward of the plane in the woods and one in the impact crater.
 
T.A.M. said:
For the Cockpit Voice Recorder to be faked, you are then saying that the courts accepted, as did the defense, a falsified exhibit. Now if there was any doubt, by anyone in the courtroom, incluidng the defense, whose purpose is to scrutinize the prosecution evidence, you think they would have had an expert confirm the validity of the Voice recorder data.

Seems a bit unrealistic that a faked Voice Recorder recording passed through the defense without getting it confirmed, or analyzed.

TAM
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Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to imply that the recording was faked or manipulated whatsoever.

Part of my job as the "computer guy" for a law firm is to digitize deposition testimony in preparation for trial. During that process I often encounter instances where a deposition transcript doesn't accurately capture what's going on in the audio or video. Transcription errors aside, even the best court reporter has a problem capturing grunts, groans and other non-verbal information.
 
Russ:

I assume you feel the CVR is faked then. Because if it isnt, than it is very solid proof that Flight 93 was taken over by arab speaking hijakcers, who proceeded to take control of the plane, and when unable to keep passengers out of the cockpit, crashed the plane into the ground...correct.

edit: I contemplated editing that post to show I was talking to RUSS. Nevermore, my comments were toward RUSS, not you.

TAM
 
If it was so complex the US government couldn't pull it off then how did only 19 people accomplish it.

I am not up to date on the various prosecutions. Has there been a successful prosecution of a support network yet?
 
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