MoveOn.org ... "Shut UP!"

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

I'm still waiting to here the specifics which make Moveon "radical" or "extreme".

Let me guess, you feel you're slightly "Left of Center" and that Socialized Health Care is a good economic policy?

If you think MoveOn is Centrist or Left of Center, then you do not understand where the center is.

 

[JoeEllison]

Let me guess, you feel you're slightly "Left of Center" and that Socialized Health Care is a good economic policy?

*grins*

I'm centrist-left, and universal healthcare is good social AND economic policy, unless you define "good economic policy" to mean "good for the top 1%, and not good for anyone else."

MoveOn isn't all that radical, unless your viewpoint is all the way to the right.

 

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

*grins*

I'm centrist-left, and universal healthcare is good social AND economic policy, unless you define "good economic policy" to mean "good for the top 1%, and not good for anyone else."

MoveOn isn't all that radical, unless your viewpoint is all the way to the right.

That is BS. MoveOn is FAR from the center. And if you think they are the "centrist left", then you're deluded.

politicalcompass.org

 

[dudalb]

Many on the left complained when Bush used the phrase 'democrat party' as it was (apparently) a deliberate mangling of the democratic party's name to create a subtle smear.

I think the use of 'General Patraeus or General Betray Us?' is a deliberate mangling of his name to create a not so subtle smear.

I haven't noticed many complaints from the left. Have I missed them?

Nope. The fact is both left and right stoop to very tacky tactics if they think it will benefit them,and they will criticise the other side for using tactics they themselves use.

 

[gtc]

Personally, I think the smear on Patraeus' name is downright childish as well as being incredibly stupid. I also think that the attacks on Patraeus for simply doing his job to the best of his abilities, and with the best of intentions, is damned stupid too.

I'm (kinda) left*. I apologise for the morons who call themselves "left" and do that kind of garbage.

_______

* Actually, I am a mildly conservative, old-fashioned trade-unionist social democrat. In American terms it either makes me "left" or an authoritarian bastard, they can't seem to decide when flaming me.

There is no need for you to apologise, the post wasn't directed at the left in general.

Anyway I can't see why you can't be a flaming authoritarian lefty bastard .

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Let me guess, you feel you're slightly "Left of Center" and that Socialized Health Care is a good economic policy?

If you think MoveOn is Centrist or Left of Center, then you do not understand where the center is.

Let me guess, you buy the propaganda that national health care is socialized medicine and ignore the fact that almost every other capitalist country in the world has national health care except the US.

Oh and of course you didn't notice we have socialized education, fire and police services.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

So those of you who think the idea of national health care is too left to be mainstream, would you also prefer we add import taxes on goods produced by companies that don't have to pay employee health insurance as a cost of doing business to even the playing field?

Do you have any solutions for the looming crisis as companies cannot afford to pay employee health insurance and remain competitive?

And what about companies that promised health insurance as part of retirement packages which are now reneging on those promises? Should the government force them to keep their word?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That is BS. MoveOn is FAR from the center. And if you think they are the "centrist left", then you're deluded.

politicalcompass.org

Could you list the things Moveon supports you consider extreme?

So far I've heard they are against the Iraq war and that is a mainstream sentiment, not a radical one.

They are for national health care and so is a lot of corporate America for the reasons I noted in the above post.

What else?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here's Moveon's Campaign Archive.

It lists things like

against warrantless wiretapping
for paper voting trails
against the DeLay/Abramoff corruption
holding Bush accountable for the 1,000+ deaths from Katrina
opposed Alito's nomination
protecting the privacy of cell phone records
keeping food stamps
keep NPR and PBS funded
bring the troops home

I don't see anything radical there. I see Progressive Democratic Principles.

 

[Number Six]

Here's Moveon's Campaign Archive.

It lists things like

against warrantless wiretapping
for paper voting trails
against the DeLay/Abramoff corruption
holding Bush accountable for the 1,000+ deaths from Katrina
opposed Alito's nomination
protecting the privacy of cell phone records
keeping food stamps
keep NPR and PBS funded
bring the troops home

I don't see anything radical there. I see Progressive Democratic Principles.

Those things you list aren't radical but the position they're most known for right now is asserting that a US General has betrayed the US, which is very radical.

 

[gumboot]

Surely the US Senate, as US Citizens, have a 1st Ammendment Right to express their opinion, as does MoveOn.org? Or does the US Constitution not apply to government officials? Does this include the lady at the car licensing desk?

-Gumboot

 

[jsfisher]

Oh and of course you didn't notice we have socialized education, fire and police services.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but the US does not have national socialized education, fire or police services.

 

[Elind]

Could you list the things Moveon supports you consider extreme?

So far I've heard they are against the Iraq war and that is a mainstream sentiment, not a radical one.

They are for national health care and so is a lot of corporate America for the reasons I noted in the above post.

What else?

How about extreme lack of civility or principles outside of those that advance their agenda?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Those things you list aren't radical but the position they're most known for right now is asserting that a US General has betrayed the US, which is very radical.

So one rashly worded ad makes them radical? And from the claims here Moveon was radical before the ad in their opinion. This may account for your opinion (and it would be wrong) but it doesn't suffice for backing the claims Moveon is radical by others in the thread.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

How about extreme lack of civility or principles outside of those that advance their agenda?

I'm not asking for unsupported opinion which I've seen plenty of so far. I'm asking for supporting evidence.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Not to put too fine a point on this, but the US does not have national socialized education, fire or police services.

Is that your only objection then, you want to see cities, counties or states providing the health insurance? And actually, the federal government subsidizes education and we have the FBI which is a national police department. In addition there are fire fighters which respond to forest fires and I would imagine some of them are federal. I'll check.

Yep, there is the Federal Fire and Aviation Management to name one agency.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Surely the US Senate, as US Citizens, have a 1st Ammendment Right to express their opinion, as does MoveOn.org? Or does the US Constitution not apply to government officials? Does this include the lady at the car licensing desk?

-Gumboot

This is a good place to point out there was no Congressional effort to object to Rush Limbaugh who so kindly made this timely statement on his radio program: Limbaugh: Service members who support U.S. withdrawal are "phony soldiers"

So I guess you can badmouth the soldiers, just not the generals.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Because they ignore Limbaugh as he's a radio host, but the NYT is more widely read?

 

[JoeEllison]

This is a good place to point out there was no Congressional effort to object to Rush Limbaugh who so kindly made this timely statement on his radio program: Limbaugh: Service members who support U.S. withdrawal are "phony soldiers"

So I guess you can badmouth the soldiers, just not the generals.

No, they'll badmouth the generals too, if they contradict the idiot right-wing agenda... General Shinseki comes to mind. Pretty much anyone is a target for those hypocrites.

 

[JoeEllison]

Surely the US Senate, as US Citizens, have a 1st Ammendment Right to express their opinion, as does MoveOn.org? Or does the US Constitution not apply to government officials? Does this include the lady at the car licensing desk?

-Gumboot

You're reading it wrong. Government organizations don't have "rights", they have powers and restrictions on those powers. The Senate has no rights. Individual senators, have freedom of speech, but the Senate as an organization doesn't have "speech", or freedom of it. Here's an example to illustrate. Every senator can proclaim their belief that Christianity is the one true religion, and all other religions are false. "The Senate", on the other hand, is restricted from making such proclamations, because the closest that the Senate can come to speech is official statements like bills and resolutions. Senators are not supposed to use the power of the Senate to express or attempt to enforce their personal views.