Motorcycles and Traffic Lights

I got the following from the Grayman, he is also on the board for the Motorcycle Riders Foundation and keeps up on current laws around the country.


WICHITA, Kansas – Governor Sam Brownback has signed a bill into law allowing motorcyclists to run red lights on certain occasions, but both law enforcement and motorcyclists are concerned about the enforcement of the law.
When coming to an intersection with a traffic light, changes are the light signals trigger a change base on traffic movement. But that’s not always the case, especially for motorcyclist.
“You pull up to a light and when it's your turn to go the light doesn't change,” said Bob Troxel, owner of Motorsports in Wichita.
Many motorcyclists say they went through red lights, even before this law. Now, some say this law could help cut down on run-ins with police.
"It's nice to know that you’re not breaking the law if the light won't change and you go ahead and go on a red light,” said Troxel.
The law says riders can go on red if the signal malfunctions or if the signal fails to detect the rider. But there is still confusion over what "reasonable time" means.
"What is a reasonable amount of time is the biggest thing,” said Ross Reed, owner of Mid America Powersports. “Is that 20 seconds, or five minutes?”
Reed is concerned the law is not defined clearly enough.
"Is the officer going to see that maybe you've sat there through several lights and then you take off?” Reed asked.
Law enforcement officials say riders will have to use their best judgment.
“I think a reasonable amount of time should give them time to make sure that the intersection is clear, and they are not going to interfere with any traffic before they enter the intersection,” said Trooper Gary Warner, with the Kansas Highway Patrol.
Law enforcement officials are still concerned about other dangers the law may raise.
“Other motorists aren't aware that motorcycles are going to pull to a stop sign, wait for a period of time and go ahead and proceed through the stop light." Warner said.
For now, officers and motorcyclists say they will have to wait and hope these issues work themselves out.
 
Howie Felterbush said:
Try shutting the bike off and restarting it while stopped on the loop (providing you have an electric start bike and not a T500 from the 50's). I'm sure a thousand people will immediately jump on here and tell me I'm wrong, but it works for me every single time at a particularly recalcitrant stoplight on my way home.

ETA: Just read shawmutt's post. Not an urban legend in my experience, but I know anecdotes aren't evidence.
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It could work...but it could also be the same effect as mashing an elevator button--doing something makes the time seem to go faster.
 
shawmutt said:
It could work...but it could also be the same effect as mashing an elevator button--doing something makes the time seem to go faster.
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I thought about that. Maybe it was a kind of placebo effect. So I tried sitting for a while staring at the bugs on my visor until it was obvious the light wasn't going to turn. Then I shut off the bike and restarted it and the light changed within seconds. Now I shut off the bike and restart it without even putting my feet down (riding trials for a few years has its benefits) and haven't had to stop at that light for ages.

A caveat: I have only had consistent success with this method at one particular light on my ride home, so it may be that the loop controlling that light is super sensitive or broken or something. It's obviously not a cure-all, but it does work on at least one light.

It's worth a try, at any rate, unless you have the kind of bike (cough*British*cough) that doesn't always start when you hit the thumb-kicker. :D
 
Howie Felterbush said:
A caveat: I have only had consistent success with this method at one particular light on my ride home, so it may be that the loop controlling that light is super sensitive or broken or something. It's obviously not a cure-all, but it does work on at least one light.
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I could believe it. Depending on how the controller circuit is designed, it could be sensitive to the broad-spectrum noise induced into the coil by the large current impulse when your starter's solenoid switch closes. Most likely that glitch is getting through to the trigger over an unintentional path.
 
In terms of disturbing the inductance of the ground loop, I'd suggest another loop, as conductive,big and low on the bike as you can make it. Perhaps a big loop of copper grounding wire, something in the 4-0 range, soldered into a loop so it would have the lowest possible resistance. Wrap it in electrical tape or wire-loom cover to insulate it and then hang it from the bottom of the frame with some cable ties or somesuch so it's parallel with the ground loop and as close to the ground as you feel comfortable with. Depending on the size of the bike, you might be able to make an oval loop a foot wide by two feet long or so. You could do a proof of concept with a piece of house wiring and some duct tape.
 
Andrew Wiggin said:
In terms of disturbing the inductance of the ground loop, I'd suggest another loop, as conductive,big and low on the bike as you can make it. Perhaps a big loop of copper grounding wire, something in the 4-0 range, soldered into a loop so it would have the lowest possible resistance. Wrap it in electrical tape or wire-loom cover to insulate it and then hang it from the bottom of the frame with some cable ties or somesuch so it's parallel with the ground loop and as close to the ground as you feel comfortable with. Depending on the size of the bike, you might be able to make an oval loop a foot wide by two feet long or so. You could do a proof of concept with a piece of house wiring and some duct tape.
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If there's a common frequency used for these things, you might improve performance by putting a capacitor across a loop to make an LC circuit resonant at near that frequency.

ETA: Googling quickly, it seems there's not: the loop sensor mfrs use "wide frequency range" as a selling point. Apparently 20 to 170 kHz is common. So maybe just a shorted loop would be best.
 
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I have a Suzuki Tracker (the tiny SUV) actually I have 5 of them :)

They are notorious for NOT being able to trip the lights at these intersections as well.
 
shawmutt said:
It could work...but it could also be the same effect as mashing an elevator button--doing something makes the time seem to go faster.
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During my childhood, my younger sister learned a silly little song that started "Red light, red light please turn green". She would sing this song whenever we were waiting for a light. For a long time, she was absolutely convinced that it worked, because every time she sang it, the light turned green.
 
excaza said:
It depends on the area you're in, these triggered lights are generally only around intersections that have high volumes of emergency personnel. I don't believe they're very common otherwise, perhaps in big cities they are but I haven't paid too much attention while driving around in NYC or Boston. It's pretty obvious to see when it's being used because flashing light goes off when these types of lights are triggered to let the emergency personnel know that the light has been triggered for them.

It would also be very illegal.
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Some jurisdictions have the signal set so when the emergency vehicle triggers the bypass system, all phases turn to red so the emergency vehicle can enter oncoming traffic lanes to bypass intersection traffic queues that would block their path (IIRC, Sacramento, California is one such locale).
 
Yeggster said:
I have a Suzuki Tracker (the tiny SUV) actually I have 5 of them :)

They are notorious for NOT being able to trip the lights at these intersections as well.
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I have the 2002 chevy tracker and a 94 Suzuki sidekick Knock on wood we have not had any problems tripping lights . But both my Harleys is a different story . I have also notice some of the new Three wheelers seem to do ok at the lights also
 
I complained to the sheriff about not being able to trigger the light change at a local light, and he said it was set that way so a passing deer wouldn't set it off.

We do have a lot of deer, but unless a big buck walks into the roadbed and lies down on the sensor every night, I don't see how this could be a frequent problem, but the inability of a motorcyle to trigger it is.
 
Sherman Bay said:
I complained to the sheriff about not being able to trigger the light change at a local light, and he said it was set that way so a passing deer wouldn't set it off.
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I would think they'd *want* the deer to change the light, since they're likely to head across the larger street next. I'd be really surprised though if a deer made a better loop conductor than a motorcycle frame.
 
Sherman Bay said:
I dunno. Do deer follow traffic patterns? I think they are more likely to get a ticket for random dashing.
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Improper merging. Like with my hood.

Back when I was a bike mechanic, I used to see lots of bikes that had hit deer. The thing that blew my mind was how much poop a deer that has been struck with an eight-hundred pound motorcycle could create. I had one FLH that had to be pressure washed before I could even do a wreck estimate because one side of it was completely coated with deer feces.

It was nasty.
 
Pantaz said:
Several years ago, one of the magazines, probably Cycle World or Motorcyclist, tested the "stop light magnet" that is/was advertised. It didn't work.

The real problem is the distance between the metallic mass (the bike frame) and the sensing loop. At that distance, introducing a magnet (of its size) has little, if any effect. (Inverse square law.)
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Put them in your shoes?

I used to a ride a little motorcycle years ago, and I do remember this problem. Usually, where I was, it was rare for me to be at a light when no cars where there to trigger the sensor. But on such occasions, I did run red lights.
 
Howie Felterbush said:
Improper merging. Like with my hood.

Back when I was a bike mechanic, I used to see lots of bikes that had hit deer. The thing that blew my mind was how much poop a deer that has been struck with an eight-hundred pound motorcycle could create. I had one FLH that had to be pressure washed before I could even do a wreck estimate because one side of it was completely coated with deer feces.

It was nasty.
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Did you see the picture of the car that hit a moose last year? Completely filled with dung, not to mention meat. Snopes had a couple of the shots.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/moose.asp
 
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