Mother Teresa was no saint

[timhau]

Oh, when she got ill she received the best healthcare in the world. It's other people's suffering that Jesus likes.

That's natural. There's an S in Jesus, but no M.

 

[ddt]

The objections found in those articles aren't based on a mere dislike of the criticizers. They provide rebuttals demonstrating exactly how the criticisms are crass misrepresentations. You probably mistook the reader-opinions that I posted as article excerpts. They are not.

How do they provide rebuttals? Let's take the HuffPost article. The writer even claims to have been at several MT centers herself, and then says:

The sick and dying do not receive appropriate care, despite the amount of money donated to the charity each year: this has been an ongoing criticism of the Missionaries of Charity. One simple answer: yes they do care for them appropriately and even if they didn't, to the risk of sounding extremely harsh to some, it's better than dying on the street.
[...]
I have seen the sisters do everything they can to make these people's lives better.

That is just a blanket denial and does not in any way deal with the specific allegations of the subpar medical care. Like in this BMJ review:

His research is thorough and his findings compelling. Where does all her money go, for a start? For this Hitchens can find no satisfactory answer, although there is no doubt that Mother Teresa could, if she chose, set up the finest teaching hospital on the Indian subcontinent. She hasn't done so, and to those like myself or Robin Fox (who wrote in the Lancet about her Calcuttan home for the dying) who have visited her organisations and seen syringes run under cold water and reused, aspirin given to those with terminal cancer, and cold baths given to everyone, this is inexcusable.

Ms. Celeste Owen-Jones does not deal with the specific question whether syringes are reused.

Or from this review:

One of Mother Teresa’s volunteers in Calcutta described her “Home for the Dying” as resembling photos of concentration camps such as Belsen. No chairs, just stretcher beds. Virtually no medical care or painkillers beyond aspirin, and a refusal to take a 15-year-old boy to a hospital.

Are there painkillers beyond aspirin? Ms. Celeste Owen-Jones does not say so.

Or from this Forbes article:

“I was shocked to see the negligence. Needles were washed in cold water and reused and expired medicines were given to the inmates. There were people who had chance to live if given proper care,” says Hemley. He narrates incidents of an untrained volunteer wrongly feeding a paralyzed inmate, who choked to his death; and another where an infected toe of an inmate was cut without anesthesia.

Ms. Celeste Owen-Jones does not go into the question whether medical procedures are carried out by untrained volunteers.

In other words, we're none the wise with this "rebuttal". We're left with the question whether (a) ms. Jones is in denial; (b) ms. Jones is not qualified to assess the medical standards (contrary to, e.g., Robin Fox of the Lancet or the BMJ reviewer), or (c) the critics all made it up.

Guess where I put my money.

 

[Belz...]

Her guilt or innocence doesn't concern me enough to spend time researching it meticulously in order to debate it effectively.

So you don't care whether she is seen as a paragon of good when she in fact caused enormous harm ?

Christian spirit, I tell you.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I felt a little sick reading about this stuff. She was elevated to such an incredible status when I was coming up, I never heard a bad word about her or her charity work, and felt sorry for her when her crisis of faith became known.
How messed up.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Ethical mores and principles of cogent reasoning don't depend on geographical location [court rooms] to be pertinent.

Which has been our point since you first brought up courts of law.

What makes them so is the human condition.

"The human condition" is rather nebulous. What is pertinent to this issue is the actual actions of Anjezë Bojaxhiu vs. the public perception of her life.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I felt a little sick reading about this stuff. She was elevated to such an incredible status when I was coming up, I never heard a bad word about her or her charity work, and felt sorry for her when her crisis of faith became known.
How messed up.

I can relate. I wasn't raised Catholic, but I'd heard much about Mother Teresa. I grew up in an area with many Catholics, and it seemed that every Catholic church I entered had a portrait of her in a prominent location. The first time I ever heard any criticism of her was also the first time I became aware of Christopher Hitchens. He was on Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher and the subject of Mother Teresa came up. I was shocked by his disrespect for someone whom I believed to be a caring and compassionate person. But then I learned more about her and came to realize that Hitchen's and her other critics were quite correct in their assessment of her "charity" and "compassion".

 

[Foster Zygote]

Oh, when she got ill she received the best healthcare in the world. It's other people's suffering that Jesus likes.

Ironically, one of the apologetics that Brainiac2 posted prior to deleting them, waives off this indictment by suggesting that her followers would have insisted that she get the best care money could buy.

 

[Dubious Dick]

It would of course be instructive if the money she raised was fully accounted for! But, I suspect that hell will freeze over before that is allowed to happen.

By way, it is not blind faith to take the position that there is no god, of any flavour. It is the null hypothesis based on a total lack of any credible evidence to date. A hypothesis that stacks up well given just how long the theists and their gods have had to come up with anything.

 

[Foster Zygote]

If you are unfamiliar with the use of analogy then you are on the wrong website.

Once again, I am struck by the feeling that this is what it would be like to debate Yrreg, had he been a native English speaker.

 

[Belz...]

So how about that Mother Teresa, eh ?

 

[MattusMaximus]

So how about that Mother Teresa, eh ?

What a twat.

 

[Tricky]

You do know that the existence or non-existence of God isn't the topic of this particular thread, right? How about sticking to the actual thread topic?

Oh, that's right, I've been ignored

You know who else was ignored? Hitler Mother Teresa!

 

[deaman]

WOW!

Are you guys serious? This is blowing my mind.

I am not Catholic, or religious, and I don't believe in gods, but I actually cried when I heard she died (same day as Princess Di, whom I basically loathed).

I really, really thought she was a "good person".

Ah well, reality sets in, and that is a good thing.

 

[MattusMaximus]

WOW!

Are you guys serious? ...

Sadly, yes. I fully expect the Vatican to try sweeping all of this unpleasantness under the rug, too. They've had a lot of practice at that lately.

 

[The Norseman]

Brainiac,
All of the defenses you have reproduced consist primarily on an attack on the character and motivation of those bringing up her faults. None of them, not a single one address the actual critiques of her behavior.

That's not how the truth works if one is a critical thinker.

All these establish is that the writers have a personal (and sometimes religious) dislike for Hitchens and really nothing else. They attack his tone, they speculate as to his reasons, but do not begin to address his arguments. This is nothing like evaluating all the pros and cons, this is the opposite of critical evaluation.

Your own assertion that a jury should not consist of people with that sort of bias would eliminate them quite quickly from being qualified to judge Hitchens, much less the points he makes.

I don't wish to be rude, but I'd like to gently point out that there is another poster that has the 'nym of Brainiac, so to avoid confusion, it would probably be best to use Brainiac2's full 'nym.

 

[timhau]

I really, really thought she was a "good person".

Ah well, reality sets in, and that is a good thing.

Now, now. That's no way to react when someone shatters your illusions. Read the thread and learn the proper way (hint: it involves heavy use of a famous river).

 

[tsig]

But she believed suffering was good for them so helping them suffer was the best thing for them.

Yes, she was helping them store up goodies in heaven.

 

[tsig]

I felt a little sick reading about this stuff. She was elevated to such an incredible status when I was coming up, I never heard a bad word about her or her charity work, and felt sorry for her when her crisis of faith became known.
How messed up.

Whatever pain she felt from her lack of faith she made sure to share it.

 

[Belz...]

Sadly, yes. I fully expect the Vatican to try sweeping all of this unpleasantness under the rug, too. They've had a lot of practice at that lately.

I don't know. The new pope's pretty cool, all things considered.

 

[Locknar]

Thread Moderated pending clean out of off-topic posts.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar