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Most Over-Valued Company is History

The Atheist said:
Nope. They just close out the deal and take the loss.
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acbytesla said:
Why would they buy to cover their short sell at this moment?
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Short selling works as follows:
A short seller borrows some shares from somebody and sells them on the open market (at let's say $55 per share).
If they have to pay back the shares today then they will need to buy them on the open market (at let's say $12 per share) first.

That's $43 PROFIT per share.
 
marting said:
Todays volume was 19M shares. Volume is expressed in shares, not traded $.
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You're right. That number of shares seemed impossible to me.

This changes my whole perspective. The insiders actually dumped a lot of stock over the first two days post lock up. If you look at the volume of shares sold over the average daily volume the insiders dumped a third to a half their holdings Thursday and Friday.
 
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Well if you go back far enough remember the Mississipi bubble and the company behind the Darian venture.
 
The Atheist said:
No, it's almost always done as options with no shares actually changing hands.
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I was outlining the principle.

I haven't done a detailed study of how it works in practice but it sounds like you are describing "naked" short selling which I understand has been made illegal.
 
I'm not a trader at all, so I'm sure someone will tell me if this is nonsense, but its seems to me the attraction of DJT at the moment is that Trump can move the stock price by saying stuff, and he's not afraid of saying stuff that isn't true, or even isn't legal. He's almost certainly going to attempt some kind of stock manipulation in the very near future. It's like fraud you get get shares in and not be liable for. It's just a matter of predicting when he's going to snap, and then getting out a minute before all the others do.
 
Shrinker said:
I'm not a trader at all, so I'm sure someone will tell me if this is nonsense, but its seems to me the attraction of DJT at the moment is that Trump can move the stock price by saying stuff, and he's not afraid of saying stuff that isn't true, or even isn't legal. He's almost certainly going to attempt some kind of stock manipulation in the very near future. It's like fraud you get get shares in and not be liable for. It's just a matter of predicting when he's going to snap, and then getting out a minute before all the others do.
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He's already done that. This is horrible stock. It's value rises and falls entirely on Donald Trump's fortunes and nothing else.
 
The Atheist said:
Nope, just like buying gold options - the metal never touches a hand.
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I get that an actual stock certificate doesn't change hands. They rarely change hands when stocks are bought and sold. Just like currency rarely changes hands at banks.

But an option to buy and or sell is supposed to represent an actual stock. The whole point to options is that they function as a hedge.
 
I've only sold stock short once in my life. It was Apple.

Mostly, I've just bought stock I thought were undervalued. My worst investment was a company called "Fortune Systems" that had a Unix implementation on IBM PCs in the 80's. Ran across it at a tech show. I was a big fan of Unix using it for dev work. What I didn't understand was that PC's were rarely used for multi-user work with a bunch of serial ports driving terminals. The market for their product was miniscule. It became obvious a few months later and I sold my shares at a 60% loss, about a 10k$ loss. It was worthless a year after that.

Then the SEC introduced EDGAR. The real time web database with company SEC filings. Anyone that invests w/o checking out EDGAR filings is just gambling.

As for the Apple short, I shorted about 50k$ around the time the PC was exploding and Apple was becoming less competitive and Jobs had left. Covered the short 6 months later for a 20k$ profit. I got lucky. Good thing, they got their act together and exploded a few years later.

The most money I ever made was going long for >$100k ish on MSTR after it had dropped about 99%. This was when Michael Saylor became the poster boy for bad financials after he tried to do a secondary offering and the SEC looked into his filings. Went from the local DC hero to zero in a few months. I followed but didn't trade the stock for several years as he got "toxic," Ie: convertible at market, private equity to stay in biz. This produced a classic death spiral in almost every company that did it.

However, Saylor actually had a decent business and worked hard. Turned it around in 3 years or so. After the Fortune System debacle, I started following MSTR's SEC filings religiously. I'd read the 10K and Q filings and watched the price just drop continuously.

Then something happened. MSTR converted the toxic financing, and their business started a slow improvement. Stock wasn't recovering. People took a look at the chart, which was a continuous decline to near zero and moved on. But the Form 4's and Proxy statement had something very interesting. The directors Saylor had agreed to add to provide "adult supervision" were not staying on. Saylor was forced to have them up to then. Obviously not very good relations between Saylor and them. So they were out.

But what was interesting is that they had exercised the options they earned as directors but, unlike most cases, had not sold them even though they were out of the company. Biggest positive flag I ever say. Not only did I invest 100k but I got some friends to do so too.

But I'm a short term person looking for a distinct edge. The stock went up and I closed out a few months later. If I held on to them they would be worth several million today.

As for today, Saylor has become THE corporate bitcoin evangelist and MSTR pretty much tracks bitcoin price. Weird.
 
marting said:
But I'm a short term person looking for a distinct edge.
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That's the Gold Standard.

My only claim to fame is the one you were watching in real time in my Black Swan thread. 300% in 3 days.

If only we could pick one of those a year I'd be retired on my private island in the Caribbean.
 
acbytesla said:
He's already done that. This is horrible stock. It's value rises and falls entirely on Donald Trump's fortunes and nothing else.
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Except for the rising with his fortunes part. As I noted months ago, the share price continued to slide even after Biden's disastrous performance in the June debate.
 
Woah!

Back up to $14 today - there must be a few punters left who think Trump's going to win.
 
DjT now at $15.

Probably a combo of the fact the large insider bailed and so no longer a market risk and the recent weeks polling increase.

Still worth nothing even if trump gets elected.
 
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