Most influential people of all time?

[geni]

1.Abraham
2.Budda
3.Marx
4. Newton
5.Plato

After that it gets tricky

 

[DanishDynamite]

I was thinking the same thing, albeit without the clever joke.

AS

I nominate Urg and Grunt for their prehistoric contributions

Thanks, AS. It's nice to see we agree on the big things.

 

[Tez]

In any case, it seems to me that the question is so subjective, it is almost meaningless.

Let population of universe U at time T of person x's birth be P. After time T+Delta, let population be P'. If person x was responsible for killing R number of people, apply a standard population model to estimate the number of people P'' who would have been alive, had person x not lived. All the imaginary numbers of people P''-P' will be presumed to fall into the set I(x) of persons influenced by x. Let |I(x)| denopte the cardinality of I. Define the MIP as supremum{x\in U.} (|I(x)|/P''(x)). Give problem to grad student and go have a beer.

Now whats subjective about that

 

[TruthSeeker]

For consideration:

Sigmund Freud for unconscious, psychotherapy, ego/id (he may not have been right but he has certainly influenced our way of thinking in medicine, literature and even self-help pop psych)


Louis Pasteur for germ theory which led to:

Salk for polio vaccine

Alexander Fleming for penicillin

Lister/Bernard for aseptic technique

Most of us have profited from their work.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Let population of universe U at time T of person x's birth be P. After time T+Delta, let population be P'. If person x was responsible for killing R number of people, apply a standard population model to estimate the number of people P'' who would have been alive, had person x not lived. All the imaginary numbers of people P''-P' will be presumed to fall into the set I(x) of persons influenced by x. Let |I(x)| denopte the cardinality of I. Define the MIP as supremum{x\in U.} (|I(x)|/P''(x)). Give problem to grad student and go have a beer.

Now whats subjective about that

Physicists. Gotta love 'em.

 

[Luciana]

On the other hand, more people are living now that at any other time in human history. Thus, it is perfectly appropriate to consider those who have influenced the most people in the most recent century. Of course, the most influential do not have to have lived in the last century, but they should have influenced more people in it than others have.

Playing devil's advocate here - would all of these people even *exist* if not for some of those influential ones? Considering that many of those men improved our quality of lives, thus allowing a growth boom? What if no man ever took the task of Columbus? What about the educational development thanks to Gutemberg's invention? If "uninventing" was possible, could the world remain to exist as it does today, 6 billion people and all? Pure rethoric, I know, but...

I think that, by definition, the most influential people of all time should be the ones who offered *positive* contributions. Those who built, and not destroyed. The reason being that those who destroyed do nothing but show what is undesirable. Those who build can create something new and offer contributions which live on for the future generations.

I don't think Hitler will ever be lost to history. We still remember Caeser 2000 years later. He will always be an important figure in history, barring some cataclysmic event comparable to the destruction of the great ancient library at Alexandria which destroys all modern records, and also most of humanity with them.

Yes, maybe not, but Caesar can't be forgotten because the Roman Empire never will be - the culture of the Romans have influenced the whole western world, from language to art and law. Hitler? He led a genocide in the XX century. I don't think it even compares.

 

[hgc]

Alan Turing belongs on a short list. He pretty much invented the modern computer and his team cracked the Enigma Code, playing a critical role in winning WWII in the European Theater.

AS

I'd put George Boole even higher. Where would computer science be without him?

 

[hgc]

...
Hart put Shakespeare at 31. I thought that was too high so I guess I'd disagree on Mercutio on that choice.
...

I'm surprised you didn't mention that he actually put "Edward de Vere a.k.a. 'William Shakespeare'" at 31 -- without even the priviso that this is a hotly contested claim. This is kind of similar to the Can Jesus be influential if he didn't exist problem. Well sure. If "William Shakespeare, author of the Shakespearean plays," didn't exist, but "Edward De Vere, author of the Shakespearean plays," did, then you could just say "Shakespeare," and avoid getting the influence argument mixed up with the authentication argument.

 

[Cleopatra]

I like the idea of Themistocles, the man who won the first battle in the History of Western Civilization ( The Battle of Salamis).

Plato must have described everything, those who claim that modern western philosophy is nothing but a footnote to Plato might sound hyperbolic but they have a point.

Since I don't believe that Jesus existed, Paul was definetely the man who changed History for ever.

John Locke, Isaac Newton, Gibbon who was the one who attempted to describe and interpret the rise and fall of an Empire have been more than influencial.

Who can deny that Karl Marx was influential?

And of course let's not forget the Father of our Europe, Robert Schuman

 

[AmateurScientist]

Yes, maybe not, but Caesar can't be forgotten because the Roman Empire never will be - the culture of the Romans have influenced the whole western world, from language to art and law. Hitler? He led a genocide in the XX century. I don't think it even compares.

Caeser became Emperor of Rome by leading his army to tens, ir not hundreds, of thousands of people, including other Romans. No empire is won without a lot of bloodshed. Caeser was a great general; that's how he came to be emperor. He took the position from his rivals by force and ran off the Senate.

Hitler will not and should never be forgotten. His rise to power and scapegoating of the weak and defenseless, not to mention ethnic groups, stands as a warning to citizens of all free countries now and in future generations.

Hitler didn't just lead a genocide. For Christ's sake, he defeated and/or annexed nearly every European country save for a few who cooperated and thus became allied with his axis of power or remained "neutral." He tried and nearly succeeded in taking England, and probably could have taken Russia, had he planned it better and waited until he no longer had a Western front before attempting to do so. Had Hitler concentrated his efforts on defeating England instead of invading Russia in 1941, England probably would have been lost in due time.

There are lots of lessons to be learned from Hitler's conquest of Europe. One, beware fascists in your own country who rise to political power by force and intimidation, and who use powerful, charismatic, emotional, and jingoistic rhetoric to win popular support. Two, do not tolerate the conquering of a nation-state's sovereign neighbors by force. Appeasement of a megalomaniac is a very bad idea. Three, megalomaniacs do not honor the treaties they sign; do not trust them, especially when they engage in a huge buildup of arms in a short time. Four, gather sufficient intelligence and know what is going on in the rest of the world so that countermeasures can be taken to prevent empire building by others, especially those known to have aggressive warring tendencies. There are doubtless many other lessons to be learned and studied and remembered forever.

I, for one, wish more people would study Hitler's rise and fall. It is a chilling tale and is instructive to all of us. Charismatic persons are very scary. That masses of people follow them so willingly is scarier.

AS

 

[Cleopatra]

I disagree about Hitler. He might have done many things but he didn't change the way we see things at all, so which was his influence?

 

[Nitpick]

Let population of universe U at time T of person x's birth be P. After time T+Delta, let population be P'. If person x was responsible for killing R number of people, apply a standard population model to estimate the number of people P'' who would have been alive, had person x not lived. All the imaginary numbers of people P''-P' will be presumed to fall into the set I(x) of persons influenced by x. Let |I(x)| denopte the cardinality of I. Define the MIP as supremum{x\in U.} (|I(x)|/P''(x)). Give problem to grad student and go have a beer.

Now whats subjective about that

Could you please include in your problem a person (y, element of R) who would have killed even more people than x has, had he not died before his time (because of x) thus becoming less influential?
And of course person z, who would have killed x if he wouldn't have been killed himself by y?
Now, was y really less influential than x?

 

[AmateurScientist]

Some more on Hitler's influence, this time some positive ones, which often come from military weaponry innovations, and some negative ones as well. Because of Hitler's war machine and his invasion of most of Europe, Americans developed the atomic bomb in a race to beat the Nazis to it. Our intelligence indicated that teams of German physicists were developing the capability for an atomic weapon. They also had rockets, which would have provided a terrific means of delivering nuclear weapons.

Of course, the atomic bomb led to the Cold War, which influenced everyone on the planet in the last 60 years.

German rocketry, most notably under the direction of a young Werner von Braun, was exported to the U.S. immediately after the war, and eventually led to our orbiting the earth and the moon, and later the moon landings and further exploration of our solar system, and also distant galaxies by way of the Hubble telescope.

Hitler played a critical role in getting there, due to his insistence on developing the rocket program for bomb delivery.

As an aside, of course, the American space program was not entirely benevolent. Much of the development of rocketry to get into outer space was driven by the need to develop intermediate and intercontinental ballistic missiles in the arms race with the former Soviet Union. In a sense, the space race was merely incidental to the arms race, and both were prominent aspects of the Cold War in the early years.

AS

 

[AmateurScientist]

I disagree about Hitler. He might have done many things but he didn't change the way we see things at all, so which was his influence?

Depends on what you mean by "influence," doesn't it? You are using it in the sense of influencing philosophical thought.

Aren't there many other kinds of influence?

Substitute "impact" for "influence" and you might understand why some would consider that Hitler belongs on the list.

Claiming that Hitler didn't have an impact on the world is quite a naive claim, isn't it?

AS

 

[Cleopatra]

Amateur Scientist I do not wish to sound cynical but thanks to Hitler and the in vivo experiments that took place in the camps, Medicine, Eugenics and Physical Anthropology progressed a lot too.

Influential doesn't mean necessarily good, I know that's why we include Marx in the list of the influential people although his ideas weren't completely right and when they were applied they ended up to a failure.

Marx was a better mathematician than a political philosopher but yet he has been influential because he changed the way we see things or to put it differently, he offered a different perspective.

Hitler's War Machine led to several significant inventions indeed but they didn't change our perception about Society and History.

 

[Cleopatra]

Claiming that Hitler didn't have an impact on the world is quite a naive claim, isn't it?

AS

Impact? Yes of course! But I cannot put Hitler in the same list with Marx and Newton who changed the world.

I mean Margaret Thacher or Gorbachev have had a tremendous impact but have they been influential?

 

[Iamme]

Has anyone mentioned the person who invented the oil refinery?: This is where the breakdown of ALL fuels occurs. How would we have cars...our entire modern transportation system...or even the jet that went and dropped the atomic bomb?

 

[Interesting Ian]

Depends on what you mean by "influence," doesn't it? You are using it in the sense of influencing philosophical thought.

Aren't there many other kinds of influence?

Substitute "impact" for "influence" and you might understand why some would consider that Hitler belongs on the list.

Claiming that Hitler didn't have an impact on the world is quite a naive claim, isn't it?

AS

It doesn't have to be philosophical thought as such. It's just altering psychologically the way we feel about the world, our fellow men, and all things.

Having said that, I would say Hitler comes quite a bit way down in the list I'm afraid.

 

[Ed]

For the next thousand years, Watson and Crick.

 

[AmateurScientist]

It doesn't have to be philosophical thought as such. It's just altering psychologically the way we feel about the world, our fellow men, and all things.

Having said that, I would say Hitler comes quite a bit way down in the list I'm afraid.

Well, as DD said, it's a highly subjective question, not only because there are so many different areas of influence, but also because so many of us interpret "influence" to mean different things.

You have taken "influence" in this context to mean influence thought. That's not at all the way I took it.

I took it to mean to impact our daily lives. I mean not only "our" daily lives, but also the greatest number of daily lives.

Using my meaning, Hitler impacted not only the entire world at the time, but also everyone since. The world was forever changed by Hitler's plans and actions.

I think people don't like him in any list because he and his name are associated with one of the most reprehensible events in history--the Holocaust. Hitler's impact was far broader than the Holocaust. Jeez, he and Japan nearly took over the world. Because we were allied with Russia during the war, and defeated Germany together, and divided up Germany and Berlin, the Cold War began immediately.

If not for Hitler, WWII may not have taken place. What single event changed the world in the 20th Century more than the second world war?

AS