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Most Americans think healthcare reform will help the poor

Travis

Misanthrope of the Mountains
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
24,133
An interesting development.

Link

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Most Americans believe the healthcare reform plan in Congress would help the poor and the uninsured, but say it would be less likely to benefit other groups including themselves, according to a poll released on Friday.​

So no one who is needy or uninsured was polled? :confused:


Anyways, it does seem that most are now seeing the value in reforming healthcare in that it will provide it to those that can't now attain it.

But, as always, I'm willing to hear competing ideas on how we can get everyone in this country access to healthcare.

Anyone?
 
a family of 4 making up to $84,000 will qualify for govt. subsidies to buy health insurance.

anyone, regardless of income will no longer be able to have their coverage dropped because they get sick.

anyone, regardless of income, will have pre-conditions covered when they sign up for a new insurance company.
 
It'll help anyone with health insurance. You'll never be dropped because you got sick.
 
It'll help anyone with health insurance. You'll never be dropped because you got sick.
In fact you'll be able to drop your coverage entirely because the penalty for not having insurance is about the same cost as 2 months of individual coverage. Then when you do get sick you can just buy the insurance and have your pre-existing condition covered!

I don't see how such a plan could possibly fail...
 
Life, liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness...

Washington D.C.'s response?

"Pick one"...
 
a family of 4 making up to $84,000 will qualify for govt. subsidies to buy health insurance.

anyone, regardless of income will no longer be able to have their coverage dropped because they get sick.

anyone, regardless of income, will have pre-conditions covered when they sign up for a new insurance company.
What does coverage cost for a family of 4 in New York parky? Do you even know?

I picked a random zip code in Albany, 12204, to check using esurance.com.

The monthly premium for a family of 4, 40 year old male, 38 year old female, 2 children ages 6 (boy) and 8 (girl), is
$2,763.42
. Now, you can find cheaper plans but the AABest rating for those companies is C++, I'm only including companies with ratings of A or better.

That's over $33,000 per year... and a family with $84,000 in income is expected to pay that without a subsidy? I doubt they'll be able to set aside 40% of their income to buy health insurance.

This "reform" won't help them at all. Not only will they still not have insurance, they will get to pay a tax penalty on top of it, which could have been used for medical care.
 
GHI, Manhattan, family of 4.

$1,400 a month.

Kaiser, Marin Cty., CA, same family of 4

$1,182 a month.


 
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GHI, Manhattan, family of 4.

$1,400 a month.


AM Best rating C++ - "marginal".

Good luck getting any claims paid, GHI is in poor financial shape.

Kaiser, Marin Cty., CA, same family of 4

$1,182 a month.
I'm talking about New York. Know why I picked New York? Because its rules aren't dissimilar to the proposed "reform" bills.
 
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health care reform is needed for the middle class just as much as the poor, and for health care providers as well. I'm not talking about the public option now, just reform and regulation of the industry.

I work at a non profit hospital. And every day private insurers have some new loophole, some new way to get out of paying claims. These insurances make completely arbitrary rules that they change on a weekly basis in order to get out of paying claims. so for instance, they'll get a claim, and say say: we'll only pay for procedure x if on the same day pt has procedure z. But procedure x and z are completely unrelated. There is no reason a patient WOULD have procedure x and z on the same day except if they needed both of them out of sheer coincidence. Sometimes the patient absorbs the cost, sometimes the hospital, sometmes both pay part. it depends upon the contract the insurance has with the hospital. i used to work in the denied claims division, and it was ridiculous. for instance, even if the insurance company was the one who screwed up, they STILL wouldn't pay. so, for instance, the hospital called United healthcare to obtain an authorization for a patient. We were told by United Healthcare that no authorization is needed for that procedure. We are given a reference # for our call. The claim then denies because there was no authorizaton in place. We show United healthcare the reference #'d case in which we tried to obtain authorization and was told one was not required. They state that doesn't matter. all that matters is that there is no authorization on file, and one was needed, so they won't pay. We got denied claims like that all the time, every day.

the biggest problem right now is that private insurances get to decide what's medically necessary. They get to decide what doctors you see, what procedures you are allowed to have, what drugs you can get (you know, exactly what the right is telling you what will hapen if government takes over). I work at a cancer hospital. So obviously, people are only getting medical necessary treatment. Yet every day we have numerous patients who are denied medically necessary care from major insurers. And a patient can't just switch coverage for 2 reasons. 1. most people's insurance is chosen by their employer and 2. Every private insurer I have ever encountered denies medically necessary treatment. *edit I don't mean all the time. all i mean is that it's a roll of the dice on whether your insurance will approve your treatment. and every private insurance i've worked with has denied service for people as 'not medically mecessary" when it is.

health care reform is needed to protect the middle class. we see patients who have paid thousands of dollars over the years in premiums to the top health insurances money can by, only to then get sick, and be denied the product (health coverage) they've been paying for all these years, because the insurance medical directors get to decide what's necessary, not the doctors. you don't need to be poor to not be able to afford hundreds of thousands in medical costs when your insurance denies you.
 
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I, my dad, and my mom, all have GHI. We are pretty happy with it. My mother has undergone treatment for skin cancer several times. My dad had his appendix removed and treatment for an enlarged prostate. I have had treatment for asthma and shoulder surgery.
 
health care reform is needed to protect the middle class. we see patients who have paid thousands of dollars over the years in premiums to the top health insurances money can by, only to then get sick, and be denied the product (health coverage) they've been paying for all these years, because the insurance medical directors get to decide what's necessary, not the doctors. you don't need to be poor to not be able to afford hundreds of thousands in medical costs when your insurance denies you.

why should my tax dollars go to pay for the health-care of someone else? (you can die on the street as far as I care)

let the free market make decisions!! this is not a Communist country!!

-GOP
 
I, my dad, and my mom, all have GHI. We are pretty happy with it. My mother has undergone treatment for skin cancer several times. My dad had his appendix removed and treatment for an enlarged prostate. I have had treatment for asthma and shoulder surgery.
I don't know what their rating was then, but today they are rated "marginal".
 
I don't know what their rating was then, but today they are rated "marginal".

my co-pays to see a doc are $15. im pretty happy with the coverage and choice of doctors. and im covered over-seas too, which is great.
 
my co-pays to see a doc are $15. im pretty happy with the coverage and choice of doctors. and im covered over-seas too, which is great.
The GHI plan you cited does not include any coverage for doctor's office visits. Nor does it cover any periodic annual health exams.

So this family of 4, under the Dems bill, could save $1,400/month by dropping their GHI plan, while still seeing their physician for regular physical exams (which they'd have to pay out-of-pocket anyway even with GHI). At the end of the year they pay a nominal tax penalty, cost of which is equal to about 1 months coverage. When all is said and done, they save $15,400 a year by dropping their coverage. And there is no risk for doing so, because if a serious problem is discovered in a physical exam they can simply purchase a policy for that family member and they will be covered under the "no pre-existing conditions" clause.

So tell me parky, why would this hypothetical family of four continue their health insurance coverage if this bill is passed?
 
the biggest problem right now is that private insurances get to decide what's medically necessary. They get to decide what doctors you see, what procedures you are allowed to have, what drugs you can get (you know, exactly what the right is telling you what will hapen if government takes over).

health care reform is needed to protect the middle class. we see patients who have paid thousands of dollars over the years in premiums to the top health insurances money can by, only to then get sick, and be denied the product (health coverage) they've been paying for all these years, because the insurance medical directors get to decide what's necessary, not the doctors. you don't need to be poor to not be able to afford hundreds of thousands in medical costs when your insurance denies you.


But that cannot be! We're told that you guys don't want universal healthcare because you don't want a bureaucrat standing between you and your doctor!

We're told you can't possibly countenance the setting up of death panels which will deny people essential treatment on financial grounds!

Hint. These things only happen in the USA, and they're happening already.

Rolfe.
 
The GHI plan you cited does not include any coverage for doctor's office visits. Nor does it cover any periodic annual health exams.

So this family of 4, under the Dems bill, could save $1,400/month by dropping their GHI plan, while still seeing their physician for regular physical exams (which they'd have to pay out-of-pocket anyway even with GHI). At the end of the year they pay a nominal tax penalty, cost of which is equal to about 1 months coverage. When all is said and done, they save $15,400 a year by dropping their coverage. And there is no risk for doing so, because if a serious problem is discovered in a physical exam they can simply purchase a policy for that family member and they will be covered under the "no pre-existing conditions" clause.

So tell me parky, why would this hypothetical family of four continue their health insurance coverage if this bill is passed?


Guys, what Wildcat is saying seems to make sense to me. If the proposed system is as he describes, it's insane. If it's not like that, will someone please explain?

Rolfe.
 
Guys, what Wildcat is saying seems to make sense to me. If the proposed system is as he describes, it's insane. If it's not like that, will someone please explain?

Rolfe.

Yeah, it really makes me wonder why the GOP made them drop the "public option." Do they really think that is a better idea?

Of course both would be irrelevant if they hadn't abandoned the idea of a single payer system. :rolleyes:
 
Guys, what Wildcat is saying seems to make sense to me. If the proposed system is as he describes, it's insane. If it's not like that, will someone please explain?

Rolfe.

No it's insane. Bottom line from what I see, the Dems caved on the one thing that would keep them in office if they dragged the Reps kicking and screaming into the 21st century. There are a few things that might help some of them, (pre-existing conditions, fighting rescission, etc...) but without a strong public option, they can do this, help a lot of people, and still get wrecked. My fear is that if they pass this bill and they get slammed, it'll be another 20-30 years before anyone seriously tries to get a UHC plan here.
 
We're told you can't possibly countenance the setting up of death panels which will deny people essential treatment on financial grounds!

You left out my favorite part of the death panels stories. They will meet with healthy people to talk about end of life issues which will include getting them to sign do-no-resuscitate documents. Then when the person is in the hospital facing a life-threatening illness, the doctors will say, "you signed a legal document that cannot be rescinded. Death for you!"
 
. My fear is that if they pass this bill and they get slammed, it'll be another 20-30 years before anyone seriously tries to get a UHC plan here.

As suggested several times, I think that whether this passes or not health care cost will continue to sky rocket out of control and THAT is precisely the GOP plan.

As is this bill will destroy the notion of UHC and probably completely destroy things like Medicaid and medicare faster than it was going down hill already. And it will bring about the fantasy utopia the retards in the GOP imagine will happen if "only the free market could"
 

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