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Mormons and American Archaeology

MattusMaximus

Intellectual Gladiator
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Jan 26, 2006
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I have a friend who has converted to Mormonism. He's usually a pretty skeptical and straight-thinking guy, but when it comes to anything LDS I think he shuts off his brain.

Anyway, I'd heard some goofy stuff about how Mormons don't accept some archaeological science with regards to Native Americans, etc.

Does anyone have any sources on this?
 
Most sane Mormons aren't going to wholly disregard sound scientific evidence, just find an excuse for it. The popular excuse amongst the laypeople that I grew up with was that the families of Lehi and Ishmael, from which the Nephites, Lamanites, and their wives came from, and the later group led by Mulek, an Israelite prince fleeing the Babylonians several years after Lehi and Ishmael, came to an already populated land and blended with the inhabitants.

It's, like, common sense, man!
 
I know many Mormons, and consider them sane.
I've never tried to talk about their religion, as it can't really stand too much examination.
It is a good example of how religions get formed, as it occurred in a period where its rise is documented, and not subjected to years of making the story sound better.
 
A person doesn't have to be insane in all aspects of life. There are islands of insanity.
People who claim adamantly to have been abducted by aliens can be sane in all other aspects of their lives.
People who believe in baptising the dead, and missing gold inscriptions can be sane in other aspects of their lives.
 
Mormons believe that a small group of Hebrews, led by a guy named Lehi, came to North America and that modern Native Americans are their descendants (specifically, descendants of Lehi's son Laman). Christ supposedly visited them after he did his shtick in Palestine.

The archaeological, genetic, and linguistic evidence is uniformly against this theory. Genetic analysis universally shows an East Asian origin of North Americans, without any trace of Middle Eastern haplotypes. Archaeological evidence shows no sign of any massive civilizations of Hebrews--or any sign of ancient Hebrew technology, culture, religion, language, nada.

In this case, the lack of any evidence is so incredibly overwhelming, that I think it's acceptable to say that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Any civilization of the sort described in the Book of Mormon would not only leave its own evidence behind (ruins, artifacts, etc), but also would have a massive impact on other cultures; items traded to them, technology, cultural forms and styles, language that gets adopted and assimilated into other languages, etc.

Two examples: The Book of Mormons explicitly describes the use of steel and wheeled chariots. These are two technologies which do not appear anywhere in the archaeological record (to say nothing of horses, which were unknown to the continent). These are also technologies that we would not just see at the Nephites' and Lamanites' sites, but also at the sites of peoples they traded with. Even if the Nephites and Lamanites didn't trade with anyone, and died out without leaving any cultural descendants, other peoples in the region would have identified such technologies as useful and ripped it off or figured it out themselves. We would expect to see that in the archaeological record. But we don't see any of that, anywhere, at any time--which indicates rather strongly that there's nothing there to find.

It is therefore accurate to say that at this point, we can consider the "Book of Mormon" hypothesis to be scientifically falsified.



The problem here is that unlike the Bible, which can be (and is) taken metaphorically, the historicity of the Book of Mormon is core to the LDS religion. If it's false, the entire belief structure falls apart, as it's dependent on the accuracy of Joseph Smith's "translation" and the veracity of his communications with God.

In the very near future, the Mormon denominations (not just LDS, but Community of Christ and the various smaller sects) are going to have to either make a radical ideological shift, or make an extreme anti-science turn. I find the third alternative, which is that they acknowledge that their religion is the made-up fantasy of a 19th-century cult leader, to be rather unlikely.
 
The problem here is that unlike the Bible, which can be (and is) taken metaphorically, the historicity of the Book of Mormon is core to the LDS religion. If it's false, the entire belief structure falls apart, as it's dependent on the accuracy of Joseph Smith's "translation" and the veracity of his communications with God.

In the very near future, the Mormon denominations (not just LDS, but Community of Christ and the various smaller sects) are going to have to either make a radical ideological shift, or make an extreme anti-science turn. I find the third alternative, which is that they acknowledge that their religion is the made-up fantasy of a 19th-century cult leader, to be rather unlikely.

Is FLDS considered a Mormon sect?
 
I find the third alternative, which is that they acknowledge that their religion is the made-up fantasy of a 19th-century cult leader, to be rather unlikely.
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This is why the origins of religions of modern history are valuable in pointing out the likeliness of the same lack of credibility to those of pre-recorded history.
The genesis ( :) ) of Mormonism isn't all that different from any of the major religions as is seen; a guy mumbling stuff into his hat, but these older religions are shrouded in the murk of their beginnings being selected and edited by centuries of workers refining the themes for something palatable to the casual observer.
These editings fail real scrutiny, though, when research compiles the varied sources of any of them, showing the adoptions of this aspect of one set of ideals, that aspect of another, tossing out the inconvenient as needed.
Unsubstantiatable miracles are easily invoked, when there's nothing in the history of the time to say something which may have occurred naturally wasn't divinely assisted.
 
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Unsubstantiatable miracles are easily invoked, when there's nothing in the history of the time to say something which may have occurred naturally wasn't divinely assisted.

Or the "just in time" visions of the prophet, when just as the government was starting to look into the church's tax status because they wouldn't admit blacks, got a message from [someone] that said "NOW it's ok to let blacks in".:rolleyes:
 
It's hard to tell. I thought the Mormon church disowned the FLDS specifically. Don't know about others.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS) disowned them.

I'm using "Mormon" in the more general sense, those whose religious traditions incorporate Joseph Smith's "revelations." LDS is by far the largest Mormon church, and usually the group one thinks of when seeing the word "Mormon," but they're not the only one. Have a read if you're really interested.
 
Ahh, thanks Cleon, that makes it a little more clear.

I actually am interested, as I live near a hub of Mormonism.

Wikipedia's got quite a bit on Mormonism and the history of LDS, so if you want to read about it, that's a good place to start.

If you really want, LDS will send you a free Book of Mormon. They will likely follow it up with a missionary visit, however. (I grabbed my copy while staying in a Marriott.) It's a long, arduous read, but it'll give you an idea of why the historical accuracy of the book is so important to Mormons.
 

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