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Mormonism is polytheistic?

Bob Blaylock said:
It's funny, sometimes, as an actual Mormon, seeing ignorant accounts from others who haven't the faintest clue what we believe, purporting to state what we believe.

Anyway, no, that is not what we believe. Neither is anything else that has so far been stated in this thread.

Really, you should be leaving the task of explaining what Mormons believe to people who actually have some clue what it is that we Mormons believe.
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I know mormons who believe that.
 
http://www.mormondna.org/mormon-beliefs/mormons-planet-die.html

Do Mormons believe they get their own planet after they die?
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http://www.neirr.org/Deification.htm

Deification then, in LDS thought, is the process by which man becomes God. Inherent in this idea is the insistence that God himself progressed just like us, having been a man on a different “earth”. Consequently, the LDS church rejects the belief that God created the universe “ex nihilo” (out of nothing), as well as the idea that He is Self-existent, Omnipotent, Unbegotten, Unchanging, Eternal (as God anyways). God could have very well have been a mortal used car salesman on a distant planet (the planet actually identified as Kolob in LDS scripture) in the timeless past, was faithful to his Father God, and eventually progressed to the point of getting his own universe in which He could be the “God”.
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http://www.leitl.org/docs/public_html/tt/msg05860.html

The November 13, 2000 issue of U.S. News and World Report
has a cover story on the Mormon Church, which can be read
in full online at this URL:

http://www.usnews.com:80/usnews/issue/001113/mormons.htm

What caught my attention was this sentence in the article
regarding Mormon doctrine:

"The most faithful attain the 'celestial kingdom', where they
commune directly with God and may themselves become gods and
inherit universes to rule and populate with their own spiritual
offspring."
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????
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Based on my experience with several other discussions on this forum that dealt with Mormonism, it seems to be quite futile to try to set things straight.

I'm 46 years old, and I have been a practicing Mormon my entire life. I know from firsthand experience what it is we are taught, what we believe, and what we practice. Yet it seems that in every discussion I've participated in on this forum, regarding Mormonism, the discussion quickly deteriorates into me being repeatedly accused of either not knowing what I believe, or else of outright lying; while others who do not have any such firsthand knowledge put forth all manner of misinformation and distortion, and seem to be accepted as greater experts than I.

It's a foolish game for me to let myself get sucked into. I'm not going to play it tonight. If I am wise, I won't let myself get sucked into it again, as I already have several times.

It seems futile to try to put forth any factual information in this forum regarding the teachings and practices of my faith, so for now, I'm not even going to try. I will let it suffice to state that what has been represented so far in this thread regarding Mormon beliefs is, for the most part, not correct. There is some truth here, but much more misinformation and distortion. Experience with past threads on this forum regarding my faith has only shown me that the more I try to put forth a true account of what I believe and practice, the more the thread gets swamped with untruth and deception from other contributors.

If you really want to learn anything that is true or useful about Mormonism, I am afraid that it simply is not going to happen on the Randi forums.
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Obviously not from you.

"an expression which precisely defines the LDS teaching that men can become Gods was coined by fifth LDS President Lorenzo Snow. In June of 1840, Snow declared, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." Besides correctly illustrating the Latter-day Saint teaching that God was once a mere mortal man, this couplet also declares that man has the potential to become God! According to LDS theology, eternal life is synonymous with godhood. In the words of LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie, "Thus those who gain eternal life receive exaltation ... They are gods." (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 237)." http://www.mrm.org/lorenzo-snow-couplet

Is this still doctrine? It plainly says that man can become a god so there must be more gods out there.
 
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Bob Blaylock said:
It's funny, sometimes, as an actual Mormon, seeing ignorant accounts from others who haven't the faintest clue what we believe, purporting to state what we believe.

Anyway, no, that is not what we believe. Neither is anything else that has so far been stated in this thread.

Really, you should be leaving the task of explaining what Mormons believe to people who actually have some clue what it is that we Mormons believe.
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Who would those people be Bob? Tell us lest we be left in the dark and our damnation will be on your head.

Would your own Prophets, Seers and Revelators words be OK? The Book of Mormon? Our very bones burn with the desire for truth and you will not give a drop.
 
shadron said:
Agree - they were also chums with god, and could put in a good word (as well as, presumably, a bad word) for us, and sometimes provide more direct help in their own specialty areas. St Blaise was good with throats, and I used him a lot when I was young.

In general, a Catholic regards a saint as anyone who makes it to heaven. The one who are canonized have proved that state through a series of miracles, and by working on the minds of the church bureaucracy, which in itself could be regarded as a miracle.

One could, however, regard the trinity as a polytheism, though the church has labeled that explicitly as a heretical belief. There is philosophical/theological power in being said to believe in one god (i.e., it sounds better than belief in polytheism), and the church will not allow itself to be denied that.
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I loved St. Barbara. Not only did I have a best friend named Barbara, who died tragically when I was in High School, but I majored in Funeral Science in college and she also was, co-incidently, the patroness of grave diggers. I thought that was pretty cool!
 
Bob Blaylock said:
It's funny, sometimes, as an actual Mormon, seeing ignorant accounts from others who haven't the faintest clue what we believe, purporting to state what we believe.

Anyway, no, that is not what we believe. Neither is anything else that has so far been stated in this thread.

Really, you should be leaving the task of explaining what Mormons believe to people who actually have some clue what it is that we Mormons believe.
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Well Bob, have at it then. The thread is here for you to post as well.

Bob Blaylock said:
Based on my experience with several other discussions on this forum that dealt with Mormonism, it seems to be quite futile to try to set things straight.
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Ah, I guess not then. Well, I tried.

If you really want to learn anything that is true or useful about Mormonism, I am afraid that it simply is not going to happen on the Randi forums.
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Except that we could learn it from you, right? But you won't tell us, either because "it's secret and we're not in the Church" or "we just wouldn't understand anyway" - and you wonder why people view Mormonism with suspicion :rolleyes:
 
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Randfan's an ex-Mormon.

But of course, Bob is the sole authority on what Mormonism consists of. :D
 
Its possible for a follower of a faith to have almost no idea what its about.
I was a Catholic, and honestly never knew what it was about.
Priests mutter something; you kneel.
Dip you fingers in the bowl, and make a zig-zag motion on your chest.
The meaning behind the gestures, I suspect, is incomprehensible by design.

The more bizarre, the more holy and sacred it must be.
Not surprising that devout mono-theists worship something other than the one supposed God.
 
A good friend of mine became a devout Mormon, and assured me that divinity is not for the masses- Jesus will create his own planet with life at some point, and he will send his son to save the people there, and then that son will eventually create his own planet, etc.
 
While I also am not an authority on all things LDS, I have develed into the faith and doctrine to some extent, and I'll lend my backing to UndercoverElephant's post of this belief. There are a lot of misunderstandings and minsconceptions about the LDS faith, but this is not really one of them. UE has provided most of the quotes that I would have offered already. The doctrine of eternal progression, that man is capable of advancing by stages, and what is learned at one stage is carried forward to the next, is not a new one. Men cannot become God, Himself, but they can become god-like in responsibility and, by extension, dominion over others so long as they follow the spiritual teachings and rules.

Bob, I'm more than open to being corrected on this issue, and I assure you that in no way, shape or form am I laying any kind of argumentative trap in order to receive your response. In fact, I'd be more than willing to continue this discussion via PM in order to get your take, evidence, etc. I'd rather be corrected in this regard, than go around continuing to make incorrect statements. I don't know if it will do any good, but my hand is extended on this issue.

ETA: But back to the OP, this aspect of the LDS faith does not make them polytheistic. The church does not claim, as far as I know, that anyone from Earth has progressed to god-hood, and certainly doesn't teach praying to such folk. There is a polytheistic element to the LDS faith in regards to the God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, three seperate beings with one purpose, each of whom can be prayed to.
 
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UndercoverElephant said:
Mormons believe that if you are a good mormon then your reward, rather than going to heaven, is to be given your own cosmos to be God in. So there's still only one God per cosmos, but there is more than one God overall, at least in principle.
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When I lived in Brazil, I knew a family of Mormon missionaries. One of the sons, whom I went to school with, told me basically this exact thing about his Mormon beliefs.
 
As another ex-Mormon, I can add my voice to the mix here. The eternal progression to godhood was indeed taught as part of church beliefs. This, along with eternal marriage, was one of the major selling points for entering the Celestial kingdom after death. (It was my understanding that those who entered the Tielestial and Terrestrial kingdoms would not attain godhood.)

This belief did not seem in any way considered a "secret". In fact, this was discussed with me by the LDS missionaries before my conversion and baptism. And once I entered the church, this was often a favorite topic to discuss on Sundays at church. This, along with the belief in a pre-existence, were quite often a topic of lively discussion.

Therefore, saying that this is not a belief among at least some mainstream LDS members is completely false.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Based on my experience with several other discussions on this forum that dealt with Mormonism, it seems to be quite futile to try to set things straight.

...

It seems futile to try to put forth any factual information in this forum regarding the teachings and practices of my faith, so for now, I'm not even going to try. I will let it suffice to state that what has been represented so far in this thread regarding Mormon beliefs is, for the most part, not correct. There is some truth here, but much more misinformation and distortion. Experience with past threads on this forum regarding my faith has only shown me that the more I try to put forth a true account of what I believe and practice, the more the thread gets swamped with untruth and deception from other contributors.

If you really want to learn anything that is true or useful about Mormonism, I am afraid that it simply is not going to happen on the Randi forums.
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As you will. I have noticed in the past that your attitude on almost everything seems to be rather confrontational, so I don't doubt what you say about the turmoil on the threads you have discussed Mormonism on.
 
RobRoy said:
While I also am not an authority on all things LDS, I have develed into the faith and doctrine to some extent, and I'll lend my backing to UndercoverElephant's post of this belief. There are a lot of misunderstandings and minsconceptions about the LDS faith, but this is not really one of them. UE has provided most of the quotes that I would have offered already. The doctrine of eternal progression, that man is capable of advancing by stages, and what is learned at one stage is carried forward to the next, is not a new one. Men cannot become God, Himself, but they can become god-like in responsibility and, by extension, dominion over others so long as they follow the spiritual teachings and rules.

Bob, I'm more than open to being corrected on this issue, and I assure you that in no way, shape or form am I laying any kind of argumentative trap in order to receive your response. In fact, I'd be more than willing to continue this discussion via PM in order to get your take, evidence, etc. I'd rather be corrected in this regard, than go around continuing to make incorrect statements. I don't know if it will do any good, but my hand is extended on this issue.

ETA: But back to the OP, this aspect of the LDS faith does not make them polytheistic. The church does not claim, as far as I know, that anyone from Earth has progressed to god-hood, and certainly doesn't teach praying to such folk. There is a polytheistic element to the LDS faith in regards to the God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, three seperate beings with one purpose, each of whom can be prayed to.
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Why does explaining your religion bother you so?
 
Personal Grudge said:
As another ex-Mormon, I can add my voice to the mix here. The eternal progression to godhood was indeed taught as part of church beliefs. This, along with eternal marriage, was one of the major selling points for entering the Celestial kingdom after death.
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Correct. Being sealed in a temple is a requirement (amongst others).

(It was my understanding that those who entered the Tielestial and Terrestrial kingdoms would not attain godhood.)
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You're essentially right, but this parts a little more tricky, since all the good folk go to the Terrestrial Kingdom (middle in the order) until they are ressurrected. After that, some of them will get to go on to the Celestial Kingdom later, and they will progress to god-hood. Others will stay there, and they don't get god-hood. Telestial folk are there, and they get the least of the glory. Though it should be noted that they do get a share, so it's like getting to go to the local amusement park, rather than DisneyWorld.

This belief did not seem in any way considered a "secret". In fact, this was discussed with me by the LDS missionaries before my conversion and baptism. And once I entered the church, this was often a favorite topic to discuss on Sundays at church. This, along with the belief in a pre-existence, were quite often a topic of lively discussion.

Therefore, saying that this is not a belief among at least some mainstream LDS members is completely false.
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It's not. I just asked my wife, who is a practicing LDS member and return missionary. She agreed with my interpretation. One thing I wasn't aware was that God is apparently progressing as well. This is part of why mortals will never supplant God, as he is also growing.
 
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