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More Whacky US Soldier Antics

Charges coming - DenverPost.com today:

U.S. Army officials plan to file negligent-homicide and manslaughter charges against two Fort Carson-based military intelligence officers who allegedly suffocated an Iraqi general during an interrogation in November, The Denver Post has learned. ....

Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer, a member of the 66th Military Intelligence Group, allegedly smothered Iraqi Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush, a commander of Saddam Hussein's air forces, in a sleeping bag while sitting on his chest and covering his mouth, according to investigative reports previously obtained by The Post.
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Teeples played down the significance of Mowhoush's death in the larger scheme of the war and hailed the character of his troops.

Mowhoush "was a very, very bad person," Teeples said. "...When it all comes out, you'll see every man in this regiment is a good man."
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Pleas for help, sure.
 
Afghanistan, Iraq, Cuba.... no pattern here. Not at all. Just a lot of individuals all decided to abuse prisoners at the same time, seperately, with no command directives at all. Yup. Except 'Cuba', Bush admits he wanted people at Guantanamo tortured, but nobody else. Really.
 
Originally posted by evildave
What to do?

What is there to do? We're F*CKED, thanks to our retarded president and his despicable love of arbitrary warfare and torture.
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Yup. You have no plan of action. But it's more than that. And you STILL haven't answered what you think we should have done about Turkey. Is that because you don't know, or because actually answering would show that your argument was worthless? Actually, don't bother answering. I'm not particularly interested.


We can't stay and occupy Iraq forever. We can't just up and leave.
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Yeah, we need to transfer control gradually. Wait, that's what we're doing!


We've got a lot of the Iraqi population hating us now, and we're busy winning more converts to the "hate" side by continuing human rights abuses, such as killing, abducting and torturing people.
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Funny, why is it that terrorists, who kill, abduct, torture, and BEHEAD people (and BROADCAST it all), only seem to win converts, while we always alienate? Maybe we should start beheading people too. Or maybe you don't really know what you're talking about.


Iraq won't be 'another Vietnam'. We'll look back on Vietnam as pleasant memories of the good old days.
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We have around 800 dead US soldiers in Iraq after over a year. There were around 57,000 US dead in Vietnam. How the hell you jump to such a conclusion is beyond me, but evidently you're not using a metric that I want anything to do with.
 
Ziggurat said:


Yeah, we need to transfer control gradually. Wait, that's what we're doing!
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Control! Control as in control like in Afghanistan?



Funny, why is it that terrorists, who kill, abduct, torture, and BEHEAD people (and BROADCAST it all), only seem to win converts, while we always alienate? Maybe we should start beheading people too. Or maybe you don't really know what you're talking about.
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That's right, it is so much better when you use attack helicopters and tanks.
 
I think that America and like countries are held to a higher standard, and when we disregard our own principles or violate what other countries perceive to be our standards, then we receive a lot of flak.

Let's face it, when an American aircraft carrier shows up in the bay, I think most people would say 'Whew, It's Americans'. If Saddam had an aircraft carrier and he pulled up off a coast somewhere, what do you think people would be saying? I think it would be "Oh crap, where is the US? Pack the bags Imsallah, we are outta here!"

Even though the reasons for going into Iraq were BS, and we need to leave them to their own devices, I don't have a problem with preserving the status quo by replacing a regime that could cause 2 continents a lot of grief. Just go, but let them know we'll be back if we need to.

As for relinquishing control gradually, unfortunately we have to. We can't tear down one structure without building up one to replace it. A year of trying to train their police was an expensive failure, thanks to incompetence and corruption.
 
a_unique_person said:

Control! Control as in control like in Afghanistan?
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Yet more vague attacks with no real point. Of course it's not going to be like Afghanistan, because Iraq is very different from Afghanistan. If you want to criticise what we're doing, come up with an actual criticism. I'm sick of these intellectually lazy equivalence arguments.


That's right, it is so much better when you use attack helicopters and tanks.
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Yup, this is exactly what I mean. I point out that evildave doesn't know what he's talking about (terrorists kill more innocent Iraqis than we do, and he still thinks that the Iraqis must be aligning themselves with Zarqawi because we're just so dastardly), and you respond with vague, irrelevant inuendo. Do you have an actual argument here? What, exactly, is your position? That the use of high-tech weapons and precision bombs, rather than suicide car bombers and AK-47's, is what's alienating Iraqis? Are you claiming that Iraqis are all ludites? I'd refute your nonsense, except your nonsense doesn't really have any point.
 
U.S. moves to classify Guantanamo abuse suit documents
Action pre-empts judge's expected ruling to unseal papers
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/179298_guantanamo24.html

The Department of Defense has moved to classify documents in federal court in Seattle that accuse the government of abusing a prisoner and violating international law at Guantanamo Bay, where those suspected of terrorist ties are being held.
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Just in time for a lawsuit raised by one of the people they tortured.

I bet Michael Jackson wishes he was president, so he could have the state department 'classify' and otherwise cover up his crimes.

US experts unconvinced by Bush assurance on torture
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3574745&thesection=news&thesubsection=world

WASHINGTON - United States legal experts and human rights activists on Thursday questioned assurances by president George W Bush that the US government never ordered, and would never order, detainees to be tortured.

The White House this week released a thick file of declassified papers to try to demonstrate that Bush and his top aides, in setting policy on interrogation methods, insisted that detainees be treated humanely.

"Let me make very clear the position of my government and our country: we do not condone torture. I have never ordered torture. I will never order torture. The values of this country are such that torture is not a part of our soul and our being," Bush told reporters at the White House.

The administration also appeared to distance itself from a Justice Department memo that argued that the president, as commander in chief, was not constitutionally bound by key US anti-torture laws.
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crackmonkey said:
I think we need to view Dave's posts for what they are - desperate pleas for help.
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Not really CM....but I do expect to hear those cries in person just after he meets Mr. Phrost @ TAM3! That's worth the airfare to sin-city by itself! ;)

-z
 
I think our percentage of misconduct is very, very far below that of the Iraqi forces.
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What a f**king douche bag! Is that how you excuse our behavior? Jesus, let's just figure out the exact percentage and torture everyone up to half a percentage point below that figure - then we can still say 'at least we're not as bad as Saddam'. I swear, if this was being done to our troops, you'd be saying different stuff, and you know it. It's not justified, repeat, NOT justified just because it's our troops doing the killing/raping/torturing.

ANY amount of torture performed by our troops is morally reprehensible. We shouldn't be comparing ourselves to anyone for our morality - we should be asking ourselves 'is this wrong?' for our morality. I mean, to carry your shi**y logical fallacy further, Saddam is okay because he isn't as bad as Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Khan, Pol Pot, etc., so we should just let him off the hook, right?
 
Dorian Gray said:
What a f**king douche bag! Is that how you excuse our behavior? Jesus, let's just figure out the exact percentage and torture everyone up to half a percentage point below that figure - then we can still say 'at least we're not as bad as Saddam'. I swear, if this was being done to our troops, you'd be saying different stuff, and you know it. It's not justified, repeat, NOT justified just because it's our troops doing the killing/raping/torturing.

ANY amount of torture performed by our troops is morally reprehensible. We shouldn't be comparing ourselves to anyone for our morality - we should be asking ourselves 'is this wrong?' for our morality. I mean, to carry your shi**y logical fallacy further, Saddam is okay because he isn't as bad as Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Khan, Pol Pot, etc., so we should just let him off the hook, right?
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Idiot. No one is saying that at all. It's the inequity in covereage I'm upset about. You have 2 systems: "Laughing At Genitals" vs. "Beating Innocents To Death". Guess who's better?
 
Bottle or the Gun said:

Idiot. No one is saying that at all. It's the inequity in covereage I'm upset about. You have 2 systems: "Laughing At Genitals" vs. "Beating Innocents To Death". Guess who's better?
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Rumsfeld et al:

Rumsfeld told Congress the unrevealed photos and videos contain acts "that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman."
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And yet some people still stick to 'laughing at genitals'.

I can understand arguments about which interrogation methods we should accept, and I can understand those who bring up the 'ticking bomb'. Describing the treatment in Agu Ghraib as laughing at genitals, however, is pure denial.
 
Bottle or the Gun said:

Idiot. No one is saying that at all. It's the inequity in covereage I'm upset about. You have 2 systems: "Laughing At Genitals" vs. "Beating Innocents To Death". Guess who's better?
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Care to respond to my post explaining the inequality of outrage?

What do you think of my explanation?
 
Bottle or the Gun said:

Idiot. No one is saying that at all. It's the inequity in covereage I'm upset about. You have 2 systems: "Laughing At Genitals" vs. "Beating Innocents To Death". Guess who's better?
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Well I've heard the Iraqi Provisional Government (IPG) may now be handing out their brand of justice to those convicted of insurgent violence. Heads will roll soon...(also hands).... I guess soon that "laughing at genitals" will merely be a fond memory of those who remain @ Abu Ghraib when new management takes over.

But hey,...who are we to condemn the Arab culture's traditions of justice/punishment?? After all one culture may not pass judgement on another!!! All cultures are equally valid!!

-z
 
rikzilla said:


Well I've heard the Iraqi Provisional Government (IPG) may now be handing out their brand of justice to those convicted of insurgent violence. Heads will roll soon...(also hands)....
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And I've heard that you just made that up.

I guess soon that "laughing at genitals" will merely be a fond memory of those who remain @ Abu Ghraib when new management takes over.
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Rik, I thought you were a reasonable guy. Do you think 'laughing at genitals' is a good description of what Rumsfeld is talking about? Are you in denial?

Would you like to be sodomized with a broomstick one of these days?
 
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