More on Gun Control

[Kodiak]

Perhaps from a pragmatic basis—in terms of the best way of achieving desirable goals—which suggests that rights aren't fundamental or inviolable, rather it's a matter of efficacy?

OK.

How about "fundamental for our success as a species"?

 

[Kodiak]

You are not allowed to buy nuclear weapons or anthrax, you are forced to pay tax, you are denied to use heroine, you can't cruise the highway with whatever speed you may seem fit, you are forced to buy those porn magazines mail order since your local store doesn't have them, and you are still convinced that America is the home of the Free, unlike Denmark, Japan or Germany, being totalitarian tyrannies?

Seems as if your sweet little bottom is being penetrated by the government without you noticing.

Thus my "more free than" remark. I never said "most free".

And as far as my "sweet little bottom"...at least I don't lube up and take it willingly like much of Europe.

 

[plindboe]

You are not allowed to buy nuclear weapons or anthrax, you are forced to pay tax, you are denied to use heroine, you can't cruise the highway with whatever speed you may seem fit, you are forced to buy those porn magazines mail order since your local store doesn't have them, and you are still convinced that America is the home of the Free, unlike Denmark, Japan or Germany, being totalitarian tyrannies?

Doesn't local stores sell porn mags at all in the US? Oh, the humanity!!!! Is it illegal, or what is the reason? Here in Denmark I have honestly never seen a store without them.

Seems as if your sweet little bottom is being penetrated by the government without you noticing.

 

[Kodiak]

Doesn't local stores sell porn mags at all in the US?

I've never had any trouble, but then I live in the metro Detroit area. Other parts of the country (the bible belt maybe?) might be different.

 

[Grammatron]

If its well regulated, the citizen can show just cause and is not a felon, sure.

Which is how the law pretty much works now.

I'm not in favor of random citizens carrying concealed weapons, as random citizens are morons. They can't even use a cell phone without crashing their car, why should we trust them with automatic weapons?

I see, so what you are saying we should not only regulate guns of law-abiding citizens -- because all people are stupid and need to be told how to live -- but also cell phones since obviously they are causing deaths as well. Yes, that makes perfect sense.

 

[John Harrison]

I have no idea what confiscation you are talking about, guns are confiscated from criminals in CA all the time.

You have no idea what confiscation he is talking about but then continue to write about the very thing he speaks of. Amazing. And these "criminals" you speak of were guilty of owning a rifle that was legal one day and illegal the next. Pardon me if I .

If you are discussing specifically the SKS confiscations that was due to a court ruling that clarified one particular aspect of the law. It had nothing to do with cosmetic changes, the illegal weapons were SKS sportsters that had been converted from a fixed magazine (legal in CA) to a removeable one (illegal in CA). The former AG had apparently said such conversions would be legal, but the Court determined otherwise.

As was pointed out previously, this is a cosmetic change to the firearm. It didn't change the way it works. (Not to mention the factory SKS Sporters that didn't need to be converted) Which makes it even more irritating since it's so arbitrary: It's still the same rifle. This is a way to make instant felons of formerly law abiding citizens. Their crime? Owning a firearm that was legal one day and illegal the next. Had they robbed anyone? Threatened anyone? Shot anyone? Nope. Just owned a rifle that the CA powers that be found scary looking (pretty much the basis for all assault weapon laws since they are rarely used in crime). And since they registered them there was a handy list of who owned what.

Of course, no actual criminals registered their SKS's because the SC ruled that registration violated their 5th Amendment rights.

As usual the paranoid gun-nuts ran around flapping their arms and screaming that the gummint was disarming the public. According to them it would only be a matter of time before the King of England would take advantage of the situation and start quartering troops in private homes.

More hyperbole. The facts however show that CA in particular continue to ban more and more firearms, and have used registration in concert with confiscation. You don't have to be paranoid to understand facts.

In reality, the CA state government has zero interest in disarming the public.

Find it hard to breathe with your head in the sand?

They are only interested in upholding the law as ruled by the local legislature.

The law is changed each year to include more and more firearms. I fail to see how this is zero interest in disarming the public.

Owners of the illegal fireams were offered a cash settlement to turn in the illegal weapons.

So?

If you have a problem with that, complain about the assault rifle laws, not the registration initiative.

I believe the person that complained about confiscation is against the assault weapon laws as well as the registration laws. So am I.

 

[jan]

What needs to be done is alter the urge of the people to kill in the first place. Make it socially unacceptable as they have targeted drunk driving.

That's a cute idea.

 

[jan]

Thus my "more free than" remark. I never said "most free".

And as far as my "sweet little bottom"...at least I don't lube up and take it willingly like much of Europe.

Excuse my remark about certain body parts. It was to answer Tony, not you (my post quoted you and Tony). Just some collateral damage...

Many german people are adamant that every citizen is born with the natural unalienable right to drive on a public freeway as fast as his or her car allows. Seems a rather stupid idea to me. Few care about guns. So you may agree that individual freedom must be limited now and then? And the people of different nations may establish different points of equilibrium? So that it is not just a question of "freedom vs dictatorship"?

 

[Kodiak]

...the natural unalienable right to drive on a public freeway as fast as his or her car allows...

I've never heard of this "natural unalienable" right. On what do they base their conclusion?

 

[EvilYeti]

You have no idea what confiscation he is talking about but then continue to write about the very thing he speaks of. Amazing. And these "criminals" you speak of were guilty of owning a rifle that was legal one day and illegal the next. Pardon me if I .

As I've said, several times now, guns get confiscated in CA for any number of reasons, I merely asked for clarification. Neither I, nor the state of CA, refered to the owners as criminals. They were granted a generous amnestry period to turn in the illegal weapons.
Some people convicted of felonies has weapons confiscated as well, how do you feel about that?

As was pointed out previously, this is a cosmetic change to the firearm. It didn't change the way it works.

??? Where did you learn about guns, comic books? A detachable vs. fixed magazine is in NO WAY a cosmetic change! A cosmetic change would be painting your gun a different color. A rifle with a detachable magazine can be reload by swapping the magazine or manual feeding. A fixed magazine can only be reload manually.
What are you going to claim next, full vs. semi-auto is a cosmetic change? Get real.
And if it just a "cosmetic" change, why don't you accept the fixed magazine version? After all, it works exactly the same according to you!

More hyperbole. The facts however show that CA in particular continue to ban more and more firearms, and have used registration in concert with confiscation. You don't have to be paranoid to understand facts.

The facts are that crooked gun manufactures keep trying to skirt the ban by exploiting loopholes in the legislation. Like selling kits to convert legal weapons to illegal ones. So the laws have to be expanded to close the loopholes.

Find it hard to breathe with your head in the sand?

You tell me, tough guy.

The law is changed each year to include more and more firearms. I fail to see how this is zero interest in disarming the public.

Yes, because more and more gun manufacturers are putting out assault weapons that exploit loopholes in the legislation. So more and more guns are going to get banned.
I believe the person that complained about confiscation is against the assault weapon laws as well as the registration laws. So am I.

Fine, whatever. Its a different issue. Until you can demonstrate the state of CA is confiscating legal firearms your argument holds no weight. Its just more paranoid ranting.

 

[Shinytop]

Well, EvilYeti, you are fast approaching moron status instead of just somebody not knowing what is going on. What do you classify as an assault weapon? The laws are talking about pistol grips and muzzle brakes and flash suppressors. How do these make an otherwise basic semi auto weapon an assault weapon? Are these not just cosmetic changes?

And you never did respond to the lies regarding the registration and later confiscation by the Governor and the legislature. Ah yes, FM status all the way. And a troll besides.

Paranoia is only when they are not out to get you. The government of the state of California is out to disarm the public, one step at a time. Seems like it would be more effective to disarm the criminals but that would take actual work instead of just lies.

 

[EvilYeti]

Well, EvilYeti, you are fast approaching moron status instead of just somebody not knowing what is going on. What do you classify as an assault weapon? The laws are talking about pistol grips and muzzle brakes and flash suppressors. How do these make an otherwise basic semi auto weapon an assault weapon? Are these not just cosmetic changes?

Wow, more ad-homs from the nutball and nothing of substance. Can't you folks provide anything other than paranoid rantings?
The SKS confiscations were due to a DETACHABLE magazine! Do you think that qualifies as a cosmetic change?

And you never did respond to the lies regarding the registration and later confiscation by the Governor and the legislature. Ah yes, FM status all the way. And a troll besides.

Gee, you never responded to my request for hard numbers regarding the number of confiscated weapons vs. registrations. Why is that? Oh yeah, you are a paranoid lunatic with nothing to bring to debate other than insane rantings.

Paranoia is only when they are not out to get you. The government of the state of California is out to disarm the public, one step at a time. Seems like it would be more effective to disarm the criminals but that would take actual work instead of just lies.

Criminals have guns confiscated all the time, look it up. But you won't, people like you never do, because you have no interest in the truth.
If the state of CA is really interested in disarming the public, they certainly aren't doing a very good job of it, as every gun owner I know still hasn't had anything confiscated!

 

[Wolverine]

Wow, more ad-homs from the nutball and nothing of substance.

Just an observation...

I hope you realize that this statement is much more applicable to your posts.

 

[billydkid]

But....

I'm with Danish. (What flavour are you, btw?) A gun is a more efficient killing machine. You will never rid society of homicide. You just try to minimisel it. Much as people try to control the road toll. Various countries resort to different levels of control.

But not nearly as efficient as a large pipe bomb stuffed with match heads. or a well placed molatov (sp) cocktail. or a well aimed automobile. or a mixture of fertilizer and fuel oil in an oil drum. and so on.

 

[EvilYeti]

Just an observation...

I hope you realize that this statement is much more applicable to your posts.

Uhh, dude, why do you always single me out?

If you have something of substance relevant to the debate by all means present it, otherwise stay out of it.

 

[Shinytop]

Uhh, dude, why do you always single me out?

If you have something of substance relevant to the debate by all means present it, otherwise stay out of it.

Then why are you participating?

 

[EvilYeti]

Then why are you participating?

Wow, zero content from you, again.

Where are those numbers I asked for?

 

[Shinytop]

Only a poster of your ilk would demand answers without answering a single question. Facts are that one confiscation after lying to the citizens is too much. Where are your answers?

 

[Theodore Kurita]

It's that damn Japanese bow & arrow culture, when will they ever learn?

I'll be damned if you ever see me in Japan, what with arrows and such flying around, one is likely to get killed.

uhhh... Tony...

The Japanese Worship Katana's

Not Bows and Arrows.

A Katana can cut a Machine gun in half with one strike!

 

[Tony]

uhhh... Tony...

The Japanese Worship Katana's

Not Bows and Arrows.

A Katana can cut a Machine gun in half with one strike!

I was joking when I said that, sorry it wasnt more obvious.


BTW. Thanks for the info, you learn something new everyday.