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More Judges Protecting Rapists

Skeptic Ginger said:
The only question I have is why the poster dismisses rape as "they hooked up".

There are plenty of teens and young adults having sex after a few drinks. Very few of these rape cases are about two people "hooking up". They are about boys and young men raping passed-out girls and women.

The poster sounds like it was produced by some adults trying to scare kids into behaving. It not only doesn't work, it repeats the stereotype that the guys aren't guilty, they are being called rapists when those girls were responsible for getting drunk at a party. There skirts were too short, evil temptresses, it's OK for boys to have sex but the girls they have sex with are whores. :rolleyes:

I'm sure more than one girl has falsely accused a guy of raping her after they had sex. But that's not usually the case. Teens have sex. They drink.

This was rape.
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...are you reacting to the OP, to the poster image, to somebody's remarks here, or just projecting a whole buncha stuff straight from your own head?
 
carlitos said:
The judge is clearly in the wrong here, but I'd vote against the judge even having the discretion to charge a 16 year old "as an adult." A 16 year old isn't an adult. Unless we are going to have judges judging case-by-case when someone becomes an adult for voting, drinking or contracts, we should not have judges judging individual cases as to when someone becomes an adult for raping.
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Not a lawyer, but reading about the case it seems there is a motion that addresses in what instances a case should be moved to adult court. The prosecution has the burden of showing the specific case meets the criteria. The judge then has to make a decision on if the prosecution's motion to move has matched the criteria. Filing motion seeking waiver of jurisdiction; hearing.

So it really just comes down to what crimes when the motion was crafted were considered reasonable to have moved to adult court and what criteria must be met. The judge simply has the power to see if such conditions were met by the prosecution, which is why the judge's ruling was overturned.
 
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3point14 said:
The answer seems to be that women have no agency. According to the image.

That's a joke image, I assume?
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Doubtful. I looked quickly for it and found this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLo..._did_the_jake_and_josie_poster_i_keep_saying/

According to the top comment it was a poster campaign at Coastal Carolina University.

These things are often framed in a gendered lens so I'm not surprised.

edit: I wouldn't be surprised if it was a joke, either. I just happen to think this one is real
 
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TragicMonkey said:
...are you reacting to the OP, to the poster image, to somebody's remarks here, or just projecting a whole buncha stuff straight from your own head?
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I'm reacting to the poster, I said so in my post.

Yeah it's in my head, it's called learning and experience. What is it in my post you don't agree with?
 
pharphis said:
Doubtful. I looked quickly for it and found this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLo..._did_the_jake_and_josie_poster_i_keep_saying/

According to the top comment it was a poster campaign at Coastal Carolina University.

These things are often framed in a gendered lens so I'm not surprised.

edit: I wouldn't be surprised if it was a joke, either. I just happen to think this one is real
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Universities have had to address the issue of "no means no" so I imagine now that we know the context of the poster that that was the motive then behind the poster.

I doubt the person(s) who created it understood the message, "just hooking up" is not the same as, "she said no".

We've had pages long debates about this with some people taking the absurd position, if a woman has had one drink she can't consent. Then there was the obvious next comment, so if two married people go out for drinks they shouldn't have sex when they get home?

This went round and round. I'm comfortable recognizing women like sex and every case of a drink and sex is not the same. It's the pushy guy who won't take no for an answer that is the problem and old movies with that stupid theme, kiss her she wants it, are partly to blame.
 
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https://time.com/5619918/judge-james-troiano-new-jersey-teen-rape-case/
In Troiano’s ruling, which recently became public in the appeals process, he said the teen who is accused of filming his alleged rape and sharing the video with friends was an Eagle Scout who came from a “good family” and was doing “extremely well” at an “excellent school.”

Prosecutors said the 16-year-old boy, identified only as “G.M.C.” in court documents, filmed himself penetrating the girl, also 16, from behind, showing her bare torso and her head hanging down in a darkened room.
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Has anyone tried to justify why the rapist was not tried for producing and distributing child pornography?

Ranb
 
JoeMorgue said:
I'm not a fan that, outside of very rare on-off cases like parental emancipation, that in our legal system the only time a minor magically becomes an adult is when they did something wrong.

Please note that not trying them as an adult does not mean letting them get away with things or not getting justice to any victims of any crimes they might commit.

But yeah there is something off about someone committing rape (legally) when they couldn't have legally had sex. You can't go before a judge and go "I think I'm old and mature enough to bang" so it should work inverted in the opposite direction.
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I think it's one glaring hole in the law treating everyone 0-17 as a minor.

It goes from a literal baby to a legal adult in many other countries, and essentially adult physically, though we wouldn't expect most younger kids to be involved.

But rape in high school, particularly involving upperclassmen, if they were just a tad bit older they'd certiainly be charged as adults. On paper yeah we can't really charge you as an adult but you did an act typical of adult males just a few years older than you...some of whom might be in your circle of friends.
 
Yeah, I'd be happier with some kind of graduated system instead of trying minors 'as adults' for murder, rape, etc. Small children, preteens, teenagers and adults all have pretty different degrees of that 'being able to fully understand the consequences to others or even to yourself, of what you're doing' thing, and IMO should all face consequences, but different consequences. I wouldn't want to lock up this little ******* for five years, but he needs way more than a slap on the wrist or a nothing.

ETA: More graduated than just minor or adult, I mean.
 
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Seismosaurus said:
If this is universal male behaviour then why have I, a straight male, never raped and never wanted to rape a single woman?
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Universal as in men everywhere do it, not that all individual men commit rape. My point to cullennz being he didn't need to learn that behavior from anybody.

Also, you may say that, but phenomena like war rape exist among the military. We can't be certain of what we're capable of.
 
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Just a reminder that the punk who did this called it rape.

If I'm a prosecutor, my argument is that when the accused tells you what they did is illegal, believe them.

And in calling it rape, he was fully aware that it was wrong, so don't give me the "juveniles don't comprehend the significance of their actions."

I'm usually not big on trying juveniles as adults, but this guy is a predator. He thinks rape is funny and cool. He's not safe for society.

His words betray him.
 
Venom said:
Universal as in men everywhere do it, not that all individual men commit rape. My point to cullennz being he didn't need to learn that behavior from anybody.

Also, you may say that, but phenomena like war rape exist among the military. We can't be certain of what we're capable of.
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I think we call it "universal human behavior" if women also do it. Such as rape


pgwenthold said:
Just a reminder that the punk who did this called it rape.

If I'm a prosecutor, my argument is that when the accused tells you what they did is illegal, believe them.

And in calling it rape, he was fully aware that it was wrong, so don't give me the "juveniles don't comprehend the significance of their actions."

I'm usually not big on trying juveniles as adults, but this guy is a predator. He thinks rape is funny and cool. He's not safe for society.

His words betray him.
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Good point. I wonder how this is addressed.
 
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I saw a Facebook post by someone who wanted rape to be as unthinkable as cannibalism. I started wondering then, how we learn a revulsion to cannibalism? What is different about rape that it's not seen as being serious at all?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The only question I have is why the poster dismisses rape as "they hooked up".

There are plenty of teens and young adults having sex after a few drinks. Very few of these rape cases are about two people "hooking up". They are about boys and young men raping passed-out girls and women.

The poster sounds like it was produced by some adults trying to scare kids into behaving. It not only doesn't work, it repeats the stereotype that the guys aren't guilty, they are being called rapists when those girls were responsible for getting drunk at a party. There skirts were too short, evil temptresses, it's OK for boys to have sex but the girls they have sex with are whores. :rolleyes:

I'm sure more than one girl has falsely accused a guy of raping her after they had sex. But that's not usually the case. Teens have sex. They drink.

This was rape.
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Yes, and in the case in the OP, the rapist publicly acknowledged it with his social media post.

Similarly with the Polanski rape, the question over whether a *thirteen* year old could consent when drugged and drunk is a red herring as she *still* said no. One can definitely *refuse* consent below the age of consent.

ETA: No always means no, but yes doesn't always mean yes, it depends on context.
 
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NPR had a segment last year detailing four young men who had between them accounted for over 40 rapes. They freely admitted this and did not consider feeding the women their “special punch” to the point of passing out and then having sex with them to be “rape”.

Just good clean fraternity-brother fun....

Again, this was brought up in the sexual-assault seminar we had recently; this is a common tactic and definitely NOT two juicy young people having a few drinks and then having consensual sex.
 
Bikewer said:
NPR had a segment last year detailing four young men who had between them accounted for over 40 rapes. They freely admitted this and did not consider feeding the women their “special punch” to the point of passing out and then having sex with them to be “rape”.

Just good clean fraternity-brother fun....

Again, this was brought up in the sexual-assault seminar we had recently; this is a common tactic and definitely NOT two juicy young people having a few drinks and then having consensual sex.
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Indeed, and an obvious difference is getting the victim far mor drunk than the perpetrator(s), who would have been unable to rape anyone if they were as drunk.
 
Venom said:
Universal as in men everywhere do it, not that all individual men commit rape. My point to cullennz being he didn't need to learn that behavior from anybody.

Also, you may say that, but phenomena like war rape exist among the military. We can't be certain of what we're capable of.
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:rolleyes:
 
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