Eos of the Eons
Mad Scientist
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2003
- Messages
- 13,749
Thank you JJM, the use of the work "miracle" would never fit with a serious study either. The whole "study" was a joke to read.
I wish I had time to look up the 14 studies in the Lancet article, so I'll worship anyone who does find them.
The studies in the Lancet article use strange protocols:
http://awayfromthebench.blogspot.com/2007/06/in-from-cold.html
There are no controls on whether or not people were exposed to colds, if they had the cold/s before and were no longer susceptible, etc. What the was the common cold bug during the eperiment? What was judged to be a cold if no bug was identified?
Bad experiments have no controls to weed out so many variables. Giving people some stuff to eat and not knowing all the variables is just plain useless.
The biggest variable of all, which I brought up in my first post in this thread is also ignored in the studies:
If you don't know how much people are taking and when (not administered in a controlled setting), then how do you know if that worked or something else the people are doing (washing hands more since they are more aware that they should be avoiding getting sick)?
It will take good study designs and a standardized dose that is in a bottle of stuff that I know contains the right ingredients at the right recommendation of daily intake before I buy any old bottle of junk off the shelf. We know you can't know what you are even buying off the shelf right now.
I wish I had time to look up the 14 studies in the Lancet article, so I'll worship anyone who does find them.
The studies in the Lancet article use strange protocols:
http://awayfromthebench.blogspot.com/2007/06/in-from-cold.html
Working through the calculations, 751 participants received echinacea, of these 414 (55.12%) did not develop colds. 604 participants received a placebo, of which 210 (34.77%) did not develop colds.
There are no controls on whether or not people were exposed to colds, if they had the cold/s before and were no longer susceptible, etc. What the was the common cold bug during the eperiment? What was judged to be a cold if no bug was identified?
Bad experiments have no controls to weed out so many variables. Giving people some stuff to eat and not knowing all the variables is just plain useless.
The biggest variable of all, which I brought up in my first post in this thread is also ignored in the studies:
Being fancy an' all with numbers is all very well but ignores a vital question; what is the right dose? This is a question that is not given a great deal of attention by either study, the assessments have been made on an intervention vs no intervention basis. Would it be reasonable to expect a dose-response relationship in echinacea? Would the absence of such a relationship mean that the benefit observed here is invalidated? I think it is reasonable to expect a dose response. If a highly dilute concentration of echinacea were having a benefit, it would suggest that something screwy was going on.
If you don't know how much people are taking and when (not administered in a controlled setting), then how do you know if that worked or something else the people are doing (washing hands more since they are more aware that they should be avoiding getting sick)?
It will take good study designs and a standardized dose that is in a bottle of stuff that I know contains the right ingredients at the right recommendation of daily intake before I buy any old bottle of junk off the shelf. We know you can't know what you are even buying off the shelf right now.