bikerdruid
Philosopher
an almost caricature response.
what did the taliban start?
i thought al quaeda destroyed the towers...
btw...it has become obvious that NATO does little that is 'legitimate'.
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Moonbat alert: Chomksy condemns Bin Laden kill.
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an almost caricature response.
what did the taliban start?
i thought al quaeda destroyed the towers...
btw...it has become obvious that NATO does little that is 'legitimate'.
HoverBoarder
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an almost caricature response.
what did the taliban start?
i thought al quaeda destroyed the towers...
btw...it has become obvious that NATO does little that is 'legitimate'.
If you watch the video it gives a pretty good summary of why we are in Afghanistan now, and why we are getting out now.
Here is a brief summary:
- Osama Bin Laden starts killing people around the world to get TV coverage.
- US tracks down OBL.
- US finds OBL, and tells Pakistan that we are going to take out OBL.
- Pakistan tells OBL that the US is about to send a missile strike to get him.
- OBL moves out of the way of missile strike.
- OBL seeks protection from Mullah Omar and the Taliban.
- Feeling safe, OBL kills thousands of innocent civilians on 9/11 for TV coverage.
- US asks Taliban to turn OBL over, and the Taliban refuses.
- US attacks Taliban to get OBL, and almost gets him, but Bush starts random war in Iraq for no legitimate reason.
- OBL escapes back to Pakistan, finds nice cushy palace protected by the Pakistani's that he can sit back and watch his attacks on innocent civilians on his TV.
- US finds and kills OBL.
- Real peace negotiations start with the Taliban now that the major obsticle to peace is removed.
- US prepares to leave and wonders why we give so many billions of dollars to Pakistan just so they can build nuclear weapons and support terrorism.
bikerdruid
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another caricature response.
Virus
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Prove it's wrong.
HoverBoarder
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Uh ditto to you.
In what is saying that The Taliban harbored Al-Qaeda who used that to base attacks on the US not accurate?
bikerdruid
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Polaris
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I'm going to go against my better judgment and explain why you're waaaaaaay off the mark here (which is odd, considering you mentioned The Looming Tower earlier in the thread - had you actually read it you wouldn't have made such a glaring error in your fairy-tale history above. I'll be quite surprised if it makes a dent.
First, the Mujahedin weren't Arabs. They were mainly Pashtun and some Uzbek and Tadjik. They didn't disappear after the USSR lost in Afghanistan. They fought each other for the better part of a decade in a bloody civil war which destroyed whatever parts of the country weren't flattened by the Soviet War.
To fill that chaos came the Taliban - made primarily of refugee boys in Saudi/Pakistani-funded madrassas in Pakistan. To call the Taliban "local" is a stretch. Some of the remaining Muj who weren't dead joined them. Others joined the Northern Alliance and continued to fight the Taliban and (when they started showing up) al-Qaida (the fact that AQ killed the leader of the remaining Muj from the Soviet War might clue you into which side who was on).
AQ thought in terms of a world-wide jihad, and considered their meager contribution to the Soviet War to have not only been vital in the Red Army's defeat but the collapse of the Soviet Union itself. OBL planned to have it out with the US eventually, which he considered the weaker of the two superpowers. His major grievance with the US was that the US Army was chosen by Saudi Arabia rather than his terrorists to defend the "two holy places" from Saddam Hussein, and he began attacking US troops and embassies to drive a wedge between Washington and Riyadh.
There's no honest way to see OBL's attacks having been a counter-attack to the US. That you do speaks volumes.
Neither India nor Pakistan are in the Middle East.
That was three years ago. More recently,
The UN Human Rights Council unanimously adopted a new resolution on the elimination of forms of discrimination and violence based on religious beliefs, but one that freedom watchdogs say marks a significant step away from the highly criticised "defamation of religions" concept.
No figures for Middle Eastern countries.
The Jordan Times estimated in 1994 that between 28 and 60 Jordanian women -- the difference between official police figures and commonly-cited estimates of the actual number -- die in "honour" killings every year (Rana Husseini, "Murder in the Name of Honour," October 6-7, 1994.) The death-toll may even run into the hundreds,
(There is powerful opposition to the practice in Jordan, including from the King.)
No figures for Middle Eastern countries.
A June 2008 report by the Turkish Prime Ministry's Human Rights Directorate said that in Istanbul alone there was one honor killing every week, and reported over 1,000 during the previous five years. It added that metropolitan cities were the location of many of these, due to growing Kurdish immigration to these cities from the East.
There are no exact official numbers about honour killings of women in Lebanon;
believed to be 40 to 50 per year.
A 2007 report by Amnesty International said that the Lebanese media in 2001 reported 2-3 honour killings per month in Lebanon, although the number is believed by lawyers to be higher.
As many as 133 women were killed in the Iraqi city of Basra alone in 2006—79 for violation of "Islamic teachings" and 47 for honor killings, according to IRIN, the news branch of the U.N.'s Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs. Amnesty International says that armed groups, not the government, also kill politically active women and those who did not follow a strict dress code, as well as women who are perceived as human rights defenders.
I‘m still not sure where you got your figure of “thousands” from.
It would be deceptive to use these figure to support your claim that "Middle Eastern Countries kill thousands of innocent women, gays, and those accused of blasphemy every year". There are ongoing efforts to get the practice of "Hoonor Killing" banned in Jordan, Palestine and Turkey so it is wrong to claim that these countries are killing these people. Do you include UK and the US in your list of countries killing women in "honor killings"? The practice is thousands of years old and countries such as Jordan and Turkey, mentioned above, are making efforts to end it.
No figures on number of lesbians and gays killed in the Middle East.
(I posted this one earlier myself) No figures for killings of LGBT people in Iran
Both major parties support an identical, suicidal, economic model. Both are subservient to Wall Street and committed to further imperial warmongering.
It really bothers you that he gets paid, doesn't it?!
I wasn't talking about terrorists. I was talking about "killing thousands of innocent people".
The military/industrial/financial complex is very complex
There is difference in rhetoric about the Middle East, nothing more. Increasingly, the Middle East regards the what the US thinks as irrelevant, anyway.
US financial problems, caused by massive institutional fraud, will not be solved by tinkering with taxes.
Sorry, I'm not familiar with Osama Bin Shotin and you can't be talking about bin Laden, who's name does sound quite similar, because it would be ludicrous to believe that the the US would sacrifice thousands of lives, many of them young Americans, and the prosperity of future generations, simply to shoot one unarmed man in the head in his bedroom in Pakistan.
Please re-read my advice on this subject, above, before digging yourself an even bigger hole.
Lawrence Wright is saying that the abuse Zawahiri experienced in prison strengthened his resolve (like the tempered (hardened) edge of a blade -brilliant) to defeat those he held responsible which, ultimately, he pervceived as being the USA , because it propped up the regime that abused him.
Playground baby talk unworthy of further response.
US wars aren't waged for the purposes of protecting innocent people.
On the contrary you said:
I didn't say it was.
Who's talking about excuses? I'm not.
More playground talk. No-one is blaming everything evil on the West.
You appear to be so locked into your own particular blame game that you cannot conceive that rational analysis of what causes terorrism is even possible. To your mind, such understanding can only ever be an excuse which implies that you will ever remain ignorant of the causes!
The Muslim Brotherhood have not played a significant role in the "Arab Spring" uprisings.
Do you have up-to-date information or whether or not discussing gays rights is allowed in the UN?
They seem to have been discussing them here.
In other words, you are are unable to substantiate your juvenile, He's-only-in-it-for-the-money smear in any way whatsoever. I suggest you go and wipe it off immediately!
Childlike Empress
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I certainly didn't mention The Looming Tower. You must confuse me with somebody else. I consider it to be a load of crap written by an author of fiction with no expertise, weaving a convenient narrative out of factoids. You seem to have studied it well. And you need a new sarcasm detector if you think my post was to be taken on face value.
Childlike Empress
Banned
The reason why Chomsky is so widely respected around the world is that he dares to tell the american people what the rest of the world already knows about their foreign policy.
If you allow for some German humor, Polaris, here's a classic history lesson by one of Germany's leading (and my favorite) political comedians about what lead to 9/11. He's a "blowbacker", which is the "official story" for averagely informed people around the world. Subtitled. Viel Spass!
If you allow for some German humor, Polaris, here's a classic history lesson by one of Germany's leading (and my favorite) political comedians about what lead to 9/11. He's a "blowbacker", which is the "official story" for averagely informed people around the world. Subtitled. Viel Spass!
Virus
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Irony alert.
Aren't you into all that "9/11 Truth" stuff or have you gone off it now?
Virus
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Fixed that small oversight.
How "daring" is it to talk smack about the US? People do it every day. People line up outside the White House with communist flags and do it.
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Joey McGee
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Just a slight correction there for you.
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HoverBoarder
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It really bothers you that he gets paid, doesn't it?!
I wasn't talking about terrorists. I was talking about "killing thousands of innocent people".
US wars aren't waged for the purposes of protecting innocent people.
Who's talking about excuses? I'm not...
Well we definitely disagree on this, and yes, it bothers me that Chomsky offers no solutions to any of our problems and makes a lot of money off of convincing people to ignore our problems by just blaming everything on the "evil West" instead of encouraging people to improve the world around them, but that is just my opinion.
I simply think that we should focus on finding actual solutions to our problems and work on ways to reduce the number of innocent people that are killed every year (by all parties), but it is a free and open society, and Chomsky is free to make money no matter how deplorable and dirty his tactics for making that money are.
Polaris
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Going back through the thread I found the quote from JihadJane referencing TLT. So you were correct. Bask in it.
I am well-aware of the history of al-Qaida, the Taliban, the Soviet Afghan War and the general history of the area. You can deny it all you want, that doesn't change what actually happened.
And nice poisoning of the well. All the books and articles I've read on the subject say the same thing. Are they all lying?
The Cell
The Looming Tower
The Rise of the Taliban in Afghanistan
Ghost Wars
Etc.
Also, you weren't being sarcastic. Give up that back-pedaling, you're not fooling anybody. Although the joke about there being a German humorist was a good one.
bikerdruid
Philosopher
a list of chomsky's honourary degrees and awards.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky#Academic_achievements.2C_awards_and_honors
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