Moonbat alert: Chomksy condemns Bin Laden kill.

[Virus]

I agree that there is more support for terrorism in the Mid East, but it might be more accurate to describe it as a fundamental element of the political culture in the region.

 

[JihadJane]

Bursting into a hotel room and raiding a compound with helicopters are two very different situations. You can install cameras and microphones in a hotel room, rent the room next door, etc. If bin Laden wanted to live he should have made like a starfish. He knew who was coming for him, helicopters and SEALS rappelling out the side of them and everything. Plenty of time to strap himself with a bomb and plenty of motive to do so.

He turned around and ran when they saw him at the top of the stairs,...

That's not what I read. I read he poked his head round the door of his bedroom and popped it back in again. Where did your "run away" come from?

who knows what he was going to do in that room? Could have easily been to trigger a bomb, you know, waiting at the top of the stairs to see when they were coming.

That must be why the heroic Seals went ahead into his bedroom anyway (according to true account number 63, the really, really, really true account).

How would you have conducted the operation from finding out he was there months ago?

Did they find any strap-on bombs or are all US murderous missions based on deranged, cartoon fantasies?

The official account (assuming there's any truth to it whatsoever) suggests that it would have been very easy to take bin Laden alive rather than shooting him in the face.

The US has murdered thousands of civilians in Pakistan since 2006 - no wonder Hillary Clinton had to go to Pakistan to beg its leaders not to fall into the arms of the Chinese.

 

[Joey McGee]

That's not what I read, I read he poked his head round the door of his bedroom and popped it back in again. Where did your "run away" come from?

It was popped his head over the balcony at the top of the stairs and he leaned back to avoid being shot. Nice, dispute my narrative with more pedantic arguments over a term, always meaningful contributions coming from you.

That must be why they went ahead into his bedroom then! (according to true account number 63, the really, really, really true account).

Yeah if he was going in the room to trigger a bomb that would blow up the building the correct thing to do would be to run the other way? Do you even think before launching into your rhetoric? The whole building was built like a maze, apparently to slow down such a raid, they had to force their way through a number of doors, the idea that his bedroom was rigged is easy to understand.

So, did they find any strap-on bombs or are all US murderous missions based on deranged, cartoon fantasies?

Whether or not they found explosives doesn't take away from the logic that they should have been worried about them. They even brought a bomb-sniffing dog on the raid.

Noticed that you refused to answer the quoted question. I imagine your solution is "Don't be the NWO and stage 9/11" so you are unable to respond.

Really? Can you please explain your take on this entire situation? What do you believe about the government, 9/11 and this war? Who's responsible for 9/11? What would you do if you were magically the President? Can you please explain yourself? What is motivating you?

 

[angrysoba]

Bursting into a hotel room and raiding a compound with helicopters are two very different situations. You can install cameras and microphones in a hotel room, rent the room next door, etc. If bin Laden wanted to live he should have made like a starfish. He knew who was coming for him, helicopters and SEALS rappelling out the side of them and everything. Plenty of time to strap himself with a bomb and plenty of motive to do so.

He turned around and ran when they saw him at the top of the stairs, who knows what he was going to do in that room? Could have easily been to trigger a bomb, you know, waiting at the top of the stairs to see when they were coming.

How would you have conducted the operation from finding out he was there months ago?

From what I understand, SOP is for the SEALS to kill everyone in a raid. However, in this case they didn't. Yet presumably those other people they allowed to live could also have been strapping themselves with bombs or triggering the Armageddon Machine. So why weren't they killed?

Anyway, as I've said, they have lost some important intelligence. Hilary Clinton has gone to Pakistan to say that no senior members of the Pakistani government/military/ISI were involved in hiding Osama bin Laden. How the Hell does she know that? The answer is: she doesn't and this is pure diplomacy talk. But if bin Laden had been taken alive he could have said who helped him stay concealed all this time.

 

[Pardalis]

Joey, do you seriously expect Jihad to explain herself?

She's just here to post rubbish against the US.

 

[Joey McGee]

Another minor detail, his wife said he was rushing in to grab his gun. (Or the NWO made that up whatever suits you)

From what I understand, SOP is for the SEALS to kill everyone in a raid. However, in this case they didn't. Yet presumably those other people they allowed to live could also have been strapping themselves with bombs or triggering the Armageddon Machine. So why weren't they killed?

What other people? Where is the list of males who were not killed and what were they doing during the raid? They shot his wife in the leg I doubt that was a misfire, I guess they expected the women and children not to have bombs on them.

Anyway, as I've said, they have lost some important intelligence. Hilary Clinton has gone to Pakistan to say that no senior members of the Pakistani government/military/ISI were involved in hiding Osama bin Laden. How the Hell does she know that? The answer is: she doesn't and this is pure diplomacy talk. But if bin Laden had been taken alive he could have said who helped him stay concealed all this time.

I agree with you, if getting all of that data is so swell why not take him waterboarding? One consideration is that if he's communicating through the courier and without internet/phone service anything they are doing is probably reflected in that data anyway. He really wasn't going to talk without significant torture, I'm sure they weren't excited about getting involved with that. I don't know, there are a lot of questions.

I think the fact that they went in there to kill him has more to do with the practical realities of the situation. Was it possible for them to have taken him alive? Of course possible, not as easy as some people want you to believe but sure. If they objectively knew that that would be against the interest of the U.S. you'd want them to not do that right?

It's not like I don't have sympathies for some of the questions being asked, or even that they don't have good points behind them, they should be considered, but in this case they are completely overwhelmed by the demand of reality.

 

[JihadJane]

It was popped his head over the balcony at the top of the stairs and he leaned back to avoid being shot. Nice, dispute my narrative with more pedantic arguments over a term, always meaningful contributions coming from you.

So where did your "run away" come from? Did you make it up?

Yeah if he was going in the room to trigger a bomb that would blow up the building the correct thing to do would be to run the other way? Do you even think before launching into your rhetoric? The whole building was built like a maze, apparently to slow down such a raid, they had to force their way through a number of doors, ...

They forced their way through booby trapped doors? Sounds a bit dumb!

...the idea that his bedroom was rigged is easy to understand.

So why didn't bin Laden trigger this mythical bomb? He had plenty of time, according to the official account.

Whether or not they found explosives doesn't take away from the logic that they should have been worried about them. They even brought a bomb-sniffing dog on the raid.

Noticed that you refused to answer the quoted question. I imagine your solution is "Don't be the NWO and stage 9/11" so you are unable to respond.

Your imagination is wildly off target and a bit desperate to boot!

Really? Can you please explain your take on this entire situation? What do you believe about the government, 9/11 and this war? Who's responsible for 9/11? What would you do if you were magically the President? Can you please explain yourself?

These topics are rather large for this thread and off-topic. My understanding of the war, in a nutshell, is that is an act of rapacious imperialism which the US has lost.

What is motivating you?

A love of human rights and justice and being opposed to bullying.

 

[Joey McGee]

Joey, do you seriously expect Jihad to explain herself?

Absolutely not.

She's just here to post rubbish against the US.

That's the point of asking, they're serious questions, but in this case they are rhetorical.

Oh the moral courage it takes to mope around poking holes in other people's theories...

 

[Pardalis]

A love of human rights and justice and being opposed to bullying.

chuckle

You don't care about human rights, you are perfectly content with the Taliban taking control of Afghanistan. Again and again you've portrayed them as "freedom fighters" when they are the ones targeting civilians directly.

Your motivation is hatred, hatred of the US.

 

[Joey McGee]

So where did your "run away" come from? Did you make it up?

You're such a nitpicker. Why don't you make an argument for something for once? This is literally an attempt just to have something to say. He was at the top of the balcony and then he turned around and went into his room for the gun, SEALS on his tail, and they whacked him. Whether it's "ran away" or "leaned back, turned, and waltzed" means nothing! Don't you get this? Don't you see how this is a giant waste of space or is that the point?

They forced their way through booby trapped doors? Sounds a bit dumb!

You sound a bit dumb because I said nothing about "booby trapped" "trapped" or anything. I watched the documentary last night, they were very clear, the building was seemingly structured internally to slow down a raid. Have fun with that.

So why didn't bin Laden trigger this mythical bomb? He had plenty of time, according to the official account.

Because it didn't exist in reality but could of. More worthless nitpicking do you have other hobbies? I suggest Angry Birds.

A love of human rights and justice and being opposed to bullying.

Everyone has a love of these things, I just happen to have a love of rationality, facts and evidence that matches it.

 

[JihadJane]

Another minor detail, his wife said he was rushing in to grab his gun. (Or the NWO made that up whatever suits you)

How did you translate that into running away?

What's “the NWO"?

Absolutely not.

I explained myself, above

 

[Virus]

Who is bullying who Jane? America bullies Islamic fascists?

 

[Pardalis]

JJ, if you care about human rights, why do you condone OBL and AQ's attacks on civilians over the years?

Your only answer to the question about OBL's monstrous activities was this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7182611#post7182611

Not really, he looks very human in my eyes. He is typical of humans who use violence to gain power. One doesn't need to evoke monsters to understand his actions. We are a monstrously violent species. Osama bin Laden's behavior was averagely human, unfortunately.

 

[JihadJane]

You're such a nitpicker. Why don't you make an argument for something for once? This is literally an attempt just to have something to say. He was at the top of the balcony and then he turned around and went into his room for the gun, SEALS on his tail, and they whacked him. Whether it's "ran away" or "leaned back, turned, and waltzed" means nothing! Don't you get this? Don't you see how this is a giant waste of space or is that the point?

Then US military didn't think it was waste of time to promulgate rubbish about bin Laden using his wife as a human shield. I regard your "ran away" invention in the same light.

You sound a bit dumb because I said nothing about "booby trapped" "trapped" or anything. I watched the documentary last night, they were very clear, the building was seemingly structured internally to slow down a raid. Have fun with that.

Plenty of time for bin Laden to trigger his bomb then which they later had to shoot him to stop him triggering.

Everyone has a love of these things,...

You appear to support torturing people so that's at least one person who doesn't.

I just happen to have a love of rationality, facts and evidence that matches it.

And a love of torture as way of discovering these "facts"?

 

[Pardalis]

IF you care about human rights, why do you condone the Taliban's constant targeted attacks against civilians in Afghanistan and Pakistan?

 

[JihadJane]

chuckle

You don't care about human rights, you are perfectly content with the Taliban taking control of Afghanistan. Again and again you've portrayed them as "freedom fighters" when they are the ones targeting civilians directly.

Your motivation is hatred, hatred of the US.

Please link to a single post of mine in which I have referred to the Taliban as "freedom fighters".

JJ, if you care about human rights, why do you condone OBL and AQ's attacks on civilians over the years?

Please link to a single post of mine in which I "condone OBL and AQ's attacks on civilians".

Your only answer to the question about OBL's monstrous activities was this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7182611#post7182611

Not really, he looks very human in my eyes. He is typical of humans who use violence to gain power. One doesn't need to evoke monsters to understand his actions. We are a monstrously violent species. Osama bin Laden's behavior was averagely human, unfortunately.

So you don't think bin Laden was a human being? What was he then? An elf?

 

[Pardalis]

Please link to a single post of mine in which I have referred to the Taliban as "freedom fighters".

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5938026#post5938026

Suicide bombing didn't exist in Afghanistan before the invasion.

The "suicide bombers" in Afghanistan are frequently motivated by very personal experiences of the occupiers' violence, such as the death and abuse of family members.

They are, indeed, consciously resisting an unjust occupation and with the most effective means available to them.

So you don't think bin Laden was a human being? What was he then? An elf?

Your excusing his behavior as being simply "human".

 

[Joey McGee]

Then US military didn't think it was waste of time to promulgate rubbish about bin Laden using his wife as a human shield.

This theory has always struck me as extraordinarily stupid. The people who were there are SEALS no one will ever know, probably will never speak, probably wouldn't care if the government wanted to invent that lie. So why would they go back on the story? The only sensible thing is to accept that it was an honest mix up, you know two different women got shot in front of their husbands that day. You embarrassingly insist on injecting anti-american sentiment into any topic that comes your way.

I regard your "ran away" invention in the same light.

I find this hilarious, he "ran away" from the third floor balcony into his room, yes that happened. You were the one who had the wrong version "poked his head around the door" lmao just give up.

You appear to support torturing people so that's at least one person who doesn't.

Yes, I support enhanced interrogation on proven war criminals and terrorists, add me to the list Sam Harris is on that concern trolls keep somewhere.

And a love of torture as way of discovering these "facts"?

Now I love torture. This is despicable. Find someone else to play with. This isn't serious.

 

[JihadJane]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5938026#post5938026
Originally Posted by JihadJane
Suicide bombing didn't exist in Afghanistan before the invasion.

The "suicide bombers" in Afghanistan are frequently motivated by very personal experiences of the occupiers' violence, such as the death and abuse of family members.

They are, indeed, consciously resisting an unjust occupation and with the most effective means available to them.

I asked you "for link to a single post of mine in which I have referred to the Taliban as "freedom fighters", something you claimed I have done "again and again." Please do so or retract your claim. Thank you.

Your excusing his behavior as being simply "human".

I'm not excusing anybody. That is your hallucination. Bin Laden's behavior, or what we are told about it, is, unfortunately, all too human. Humans are very violent animals. History and contemporary news items provide us with plentiful evidence of this. Deal with it!

 

[JihadJane]

This theory has always struck me as extraordinarily stupid. The people who were there are SEALS no one will ever know, probably will never speak, probably wouldn't care if the government wanted to invent that lie. So why would they go back on the story? The only sensible thing is to accept that it was an honest mix up, you know two different women got shot in front of their husbands that day. You embarrassingly insist on injecting anti-american sentiment into any topic that comes your way.

What evidence do you have for your "honest mix-up" theory?

I find this hilarious, he "ran away" from the third floor balcony into his room, yes that happened. You were the one who had the wrong version "poked his head around the door" lmao just give up.

I see, so now you have decided to stick with your "ran away" story after all!

The popping the head round the door was one of the many released versions that I have read, BTW. I didn't invent it.

How do you know your version isn't wrong?

Yes, I support enhanced interrogation on proven war criminals and terrorists, add me to the list Sam Harris is on that concern trolls keep somewhere.

Now I love torture. This is despicable. Find someone else to play with. This isn't serious.

"Enhanced interrogation" is a duplicitous (Orwellian) euphemism for torture.

"Proven war criminals and terrorists" are people.