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Monsanto

But the scientist you want to smear as a 'nut' seems to show that two of the most important 'great things' they do for small farmers are illusory.
Heinemann's "analysis" is junk science.
First warning, instead of publishing for peer reviewed analysis he publicised his claims through an anti-GMO activist group. Not a good sign.
Secondly there's his "work".....

Heinemann claims to have carried out an analysis, based on the sequence of the SEI and SEII genes, that compared them to the human genome. These are the two genes that will be silenced by siRNA.
He claims that matches exist in the gene for an enzyme mentioned by Judy Carman. In humans, the equivalent gene is known as GBE. This purported link lead to the claims, that this could trigger a condition known as Glycogen Storage Disease IV, which can cause liver damage over the long term.

The problem with this "analysis" is that he didn’t know the actual siRNA sequences that were going to be used. Without this information his analysis is worthless, ideologically and politically motivated speculation.
 
We could have an independent scientist that somehow has a connection to Monsanto (his father's brother's cousin shared a dorm room in college with a future Monsanto executive) and could be dismissed by anti-GMO activists as a shill for Monsanto.

Yes very nice straw bale construction but that isn't what we have here, is it?

Dr. Goodman has received grant support from and had travel/accommodations expenses covered or reimbursed by … Bayer CropScience, Dow AgroSciences, Monsanto Co., …
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3130127/

Peer Reviewer for the FAARP allergen online database at the University of Nebraska
Sponsors of the online databases include: … ◾Monsanto Company
http://www.allergenonline.org/

He’s been paid by Monsanto. Not his father’s brother’s cousin sharing a dorm room in college with him. The second reference shows that his database work is funded by Monsanto.
 
You've never spoken to a real farmer, have you?

Quite regularly as it happens.

False. This is a common anti-GMO nutwad argument. You may want to consider not using it. Especially on a skeptics forum.

So JREF would uncritically accept a bunch of technical papers produced and funded by a Psychic Research Centre showing that psychic powers are alive and kicking in the USA would you? It wouldn’t be much of a skeptics forum if you did.
 
If you think that it is fine to include 10 years of data before GMOs were used as part of the GMO data then that speaks to your own intellectual integrity and standards.

Only true if he’s lumping all the figures together to distort the data, and he’s not. In his response to that blog article Heinemann says that he did it because larger datasets don’t mislead while small datasets do. He illustrates it with a graph showing how easy it is to choose a slope for the graph which suits your argument with small datasets (Figure 1 in his reply).

http://www.inbi.canterbury.ac.nz/response.shtml

So you could equally say that Tribe is lying by taking too small a dataset. :)

I also see that David Tribe is variously called a pro-GMO communications specialist – I might even say ‘notorious pro-GMOer’ if I were to sink to the your tactics. As Heinemann points out this is a non-peer reviewed blog while Heinemann’s was a peer-reviewed paper :). Are we all noting this, pro GMOers? I’m repeatedly seeing that non-peer reviewed papers – and particularly open access ones like this blog – are suspect. It seems that pro GMOers are quite happy with open-access stories when they support GMO but not otherwise, and peer-reviewed papers when they support GMO but not otherwise.

As Chris Preston shows, when Heinemann's data is done properly it shows:

Yield increases per year by standard regression (ha/hg/yr) for Maize:
US 1961-1995: 1073 +/- 113
WE 1961-1995: 1392 +/- 95.08
US 1996 - 2011: 1273 +/- 231.4
WE 1996 - 2011: 887.4 +/- 334.8

While it is not significant due to the large error bars, it is thoroughly dishonest to claim that the results show WE has had the same, or marginally greater, yield increases.

It’s not that simple though, is it? For a start the US didn’t suddenly shift over 100% to GMO corn production in 1996. It was introduced gradually. So you’re comparing years that were mainly non-GMO production in the US.

From the Heinemann response.

Seventy-five percent (75%) of the GM maize in the US has been produced since 2005 (Figure 2). During the eight years 2005-2012, yield actually declined (y= 1423x+3e6) in the US but was increasing in Western Europe

And if you use the USA DOA figures to compare yields from 1999 to 2011, EU 27 goes from 6 to 7 MT/HA while USA goes from 8 to 9 MT/HA. And from 2005 to 2011 Europe stays at 7 while USA stays at 9 MT/HA.

http://www.indexmundi.com/agriculture/?country=eu&commodity=corn&graph=yield
http://www.indexmundi.com/agriculture/?country=us&commodity=corn&graph=yield

So, again, where’s the great increase in yield from GMO that you are claiming? You’re the one making the claims for the GMO magic beans, remember, so you have to prove them. Heinemann is the skeptical one.

The most interesting thing about that result is that after 3 hours of various google and scientific literature searches it seems Heinemann completely made that number up. It bares zero resemblance to anything I could find. France is still ranked roughly fourth highest in the world in pesticide usage. The only journal article I could find that included insecticide use in France reported a 1% reduction from 2001 to 2004.

If a country managed to produce reductions anywhere near the supposed claim that Heinemann made about France, it would be found every where. Greenpeace would be trumpeting it. It would be all over the place in newspapers, scientific journals, Government of France websites. But the claim exists no where except for being vomited out of Heinemann's mouth.

http://faostat.fao.org/site/424/DesktopDefault.aspx?PageID=424#ancor

Check the insecticide figures for France for 1995 and 2009. The figures are actually vomited out of the official statistics of the United Nations.

In Heinemann’s response he refers too to http://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/2190-4715-24-24#page-1 which says

Herbicide-resistant crop technology has led to a 239 million kilogram (527 million pound) increase in herbicide use in the United States between 1996 and 2011, while Bt crops have reduced insecticide applications by 56 million kilograms (123 million pounds). Overall, pesticide use increased by an estimated 183 million kgs (404 million pounds), or about 7%.

Partially it seems because we’re now getting resistant weeds

So Heinemann’s statements seem to be correct – USA GMO yield increases are no higher than W. European non-GMO yield increases, and that pesticide use is higher in USA GMO crops than W European non-GMO crops.

Heinemann is a notorious anti-gmo liar.

Not from what I’ve seen of this argument. GMOers are the ones claiming great yield increases and great decreases in pesticide use. Not from these figures – from the USA Department of Agriculture note, you don’t get any larger scale trials than this.

I wouldn't normally use this sort of language in what should be a scientific discussion but with statements like that you seem to be the notorious liar here.
 
Quite regularly as it happens.

A hippie that grows 2 acres of local, natural, shade grown, "organic" produce is not a farmer. He's a gardener.

So JREF would uncritically accept a bunch of technical papers produced and funded by a Psychic Research Centre showing that psychic powers are alive and kicking in the USA would you? It wouldn’t be much of a skeptics forum if you did.

What on earth are you blathering on about?
 
I've never met an anti-GMO nutwad who wasn't a liar. Their entire argument is based on lies. The keep repeating "GMO's cause cancer" and "GMO's haven't been tested enough", both of which are lies, and they know they are lies, but they keep repeating them.

So what was wrong with Heinemann's paper again?

You really should change your name, you don't seem to scrutinize at all, you just insult people who disagree with you: 'nutwad', 'liar'. It serves instead of scientific analysis.

I don't know whether I'm right in this case because it's not my specialism but your tactics are disgusting. Rather than trying to debate you libel people who disagree with you and, like many GMOers it seems, try to destroy the careers of anyone who comes out with research that suggest that GMO crops are not the magic beans that you are selling them to be.
 
The problem with this "analysis" is that he didn’t know the actual siRNA sequences that were going to be used. Without this information his analysis is worthless, ideologically and politically motivated speculation.

Yes, that's disgusting if true - why did he not just give the actual sequences in his research? It would seem the simplest thing to do and absolutely dishonest if they were freely available. Why didn't he just go and find them?
 
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I don't know whether I'm right in this case because it's not my specialism but your tactics are disgusting. Rather than trying to debate you libel people who disagree with you and, like many GMOers it seems, try to destroy the careers of anyone who comes out with research that suggest that GMO crops are not the magic beans that you are selling them to be.

:dl:
 
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Here's a leading anti-GMO "thinker". Also, a comment from another great mind:

Monsanto also owns most of the major drug companies. Its funny how they poison our food and water. Then give us pills to try to make us feel better.

It's fun to laugh at these idiots, isn't it?
 

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Another anti-GMO classic:

guess you really don't know about Monsanto, there's nothing wrong with that, but they are trying to do a lot more than make bigger crops, they are also making them all seedless and want to make it mandatory for all crops to be grown with their seeds, no one could grow their own or save seed for the following year, and yes they are using chemicals that are dangerous to our life, wildlife and of course our freedom to live our life as we choose. I've grown my own food all my life, they want to take that away from everyone. And I've grown my own smoke since 1972, so no, I've never had any chemically enhanced hybrids, mine are all descendants of my first crop from 41 years ago.

How exactly does one make "seedless" corn, soybeans and wheat?
 
Another anti-GMO classic:



How exactly does one make "seedless" corn, soybeans and wheat?

Even without that silliness, do modern farmers really use seeds from last years crop to grow this years? I thought that practice was fading even before Monsanto was around.

(I admit to knowing diddly-squat about modern farming.)
 
Here's a leading anti-GMO "thinker". Also, a comment from another great mind:



It's fun to laugh at these idiots, isn't it?

Yes, yes it is. He made a nice link with Big Pharma as well!


Another anti-GMO classic:

guess you really don't know about Monsanto, there's nothing wrong with that, but they are trying to do a lot more than make bigger crops, they are also making them all seedless and want to make it mandatory for all crops to be grown with their seeds, no one could grow their own or save seed for the following year, and yes they are using chemicals that are dangerous to our life, wildlife and of course our freedom to live our life as we choose. I've grown my own food all my life, they want to take that away from everyone. And I've grown my own smoke since 1972 :eek:, so no, I've never had any chemically enhanced hybrids, mine are all descendants of my first crop from 41 years ago.

How exactly does one make "seedless" corn, soybeans and wheat?
Even without that silliness, do modern farmers really use seeds from last years crop to grow this years? I thought that practice was fading even before Monsanto was around.

(I admit to knowing diddly-squat about modern farming.)

Most modern seed lines are hybrids, even the non-GMO lines; hybrids tend to degrade in capability and it's usually necessary to buy seed if you wish to continue growing the hybrid types.
 
Even without that silliness, do modern farmers really use seeds from last years crop to grow this years?

Well, all seeds come from a 'crop', technically. It's just that commercial farmers are nothing like as good as the seed-producers at raising suitable crops for seed, whether hybrids, GMO or whatever ....

In poorer places seed retention might well be vital.
 

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