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Monsanto

sophia8 said:
I agree. And posting anything at all from mercola.com automatically loses you the argument. It inhabits the same bucket of pigswill as whale.to. Posting huffpo links is scarcely better. Find some authoritative sources and I'll look at them.

ETA: And by 'authoritative', I mean unbiased. I'm like the OP - I'd actually like to see clear evidence of Monsanto's evilness. Instead, when I go looking for it, I just find the same ole same ole - ignorant rants about GMO/patents/pesticides. For a lot of NewAgers/Greenies, Monsanto has clearly taken the place of Satan.
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I can't believe you actually said that. I'll bet you've never tried any of his stuff, or did any kind of solid research.

That statement is exactly how a Debunker/pseudoskeptic would phrase it. That statement should never be heard coming from a True Skeptic's lips.
 
jakesteele said:
I can't believe you actually said that. I'll bet you've never tried any of his stuff, or did any kind of solid research.

That statement is exactly how a Debunker/pseudoskeptic would phrase it. That statement should never be heard coming from a True Skeptic's lips.
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Do you understand where you are?
 
Susheel said:
Debate her, she just cant manage debates. In fact she tries her best to avoid it, essentially preaching to a choir. She usually has a lackey Mahender Sharma doing that for her or her adoring fans shout you down.
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Can Mahender Sharma debate?
 
Dymanic said:
You might start with a viewing of the film, "Jurassic Park".
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That's science fiction. I prefer science . . . but Jeff Goldblum sounded very wise with his little adages about life "finding a way" didn't he? :D
 
pipelineaudio said:
Can Mahender Sharma debate?
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I am sorry, my mistake. It isn't Mahender Sharma but Devendra Sharma.

My experience with them? As you counter each of their arguments they will jump onto a new thing and behave as if the previous never happened. They use Cerallini, farmer suicides in India, animal deaths from grazing in fields, question of who owns the rights to the seeds, the Bt Eggplant moratorium in India (this is the project I am involved in, www.absp2.net) for this, gene sources, patent issues, and then finally their favourite... "Is not natural". My favourite counter to the last is "Smallpox is natural and vaccines aren't"

They will then hop back to the first. Think Doc or Jabba, but with science. Ensure that the media covers you in the debate. Dont get bogged down by the heckling from the fans in the audience. Call them out on their fallacies. They thrive on media attention. They will have tears in their eyes when they talk about the farmer suicides. The media in India love that. I argue that they are doing a disservice to the farmers by exploiting the suicides to their own purposes.

Having their arguments ripped apart on TV would really hurt them.

This man has been a great ally to us ...http://fbae.org/2009/FBAE/website/governing-body-chavalikameswararao.html

he will be able to provide you with more information. He, unlike me, is a botanist and has published greatly in the area. Another person is Tony Shelton up at Cornell University, http://entomology.cornell.edu/people/tony-shelton.cfm. Maybe Mark Lynas, but as a former GMO activist he may be seen as a traitor who whored himself to the other side.
 
WildCat said:
This is really just protectionism disguised as concern over GM crops.
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I dont think it is protectionism. It seems to be a bizarre situation where so called "environmental activists" have literally blackmailed the government using vote bank politics to push their agenda.

The Genetic Engineering Approval Committee (GEAC) under the Ministry of Environment was established in consultation with representatives from environmentalist groups and stringent regulatory requirements were set up for R&D for GM crops. One of he most stringent in the world. All of these were met and after almost a decade of testing and meeting all the requirements, GEAC approval was given for the release of BT Eggplant.

Perhaps the environmentalists expected the GEAC requirements to be too stringent for anyone to reach the finish, but in a classic turn around they claimed that the GEAC approval was flawed and got the Environment Minister to intervene. After a farcical series of public consultations throughout the country that was hijacked by the activist groups, he instituted a commission of the head of the National Science Academies to study the issue and submit their recommendations. A year later they submitted a report recommending public release.

The activists again raised a hue stating plagiarism which turned out to be one sentence in the report which was actually from an earlier publication (it was an opinion piece) by one of the authors of the current report. The report was then redrafted and again reiterated the safety of the product, but suggested a limited trial release. This too was rejected because the activists knew that farmers would adopt it quickly and their entire foundation for opposition would have been seen for what it was ... bad science and a self serving agenda.

There was some tiff between the Environment Minister and the Agriculture Minister over this.
 
Vandana Shiva can debate the horn of a rhino. She is not scared of debates and I have seen her debating live in Europe with a number of GMO pseudoscientists. They sounded like stuck records.

At the time the Super Duper fantastical world saving GMO Golden Rice was being lyrically waxed as the cure to all India's panacea's by these pseudoscientists. When Vandana calmly pointed out that Coriander/dhania a common culinary herb in India that grows as a weed throughout India contains substantially more Vit A than even the latest Ultra Super Duper Golden Shiny Rice the pseudoscientists saving the world preaching stopped dead in its tracks.

Yeah it's easier, more intellectually and financially rewarding to preach that a single solution invented by the high priests in their special, only we are allowed because we have the special knowledge, sanctities, will save you. Its much harder than getting out their amongst the masses and showing them how to help themselves to a weed. And of course don't forget that when things go pear shaped the pseudoscientists can hide behind at best their excuse that science "evolves" at worst the too big to fail political protection we currently see with neocorticoid pesticides and Bees.

What you are seeing is a reformation. Not against the Abrahamic religion, but Scientism/ Neomania/modernity.
I suggest you all wake up from your warm slumber and pay attention to the masses. After all they never invented religions.
 
!Kaggen said:
Vandana Shiva can debate the horn of a rhino. She is not scared of debates and I have seen her debating live in Europe with a number of GMO pseudoscientists. They sounded like stuck records.

At the time the Super Duper fantastical world saving GMO Golden Rice was being lyrically waxed as the cure to all India's panacea's by these pseudoscientists. When Vandana calmly pointed out that Coriander/dhania a common culinary herb in India that grows as a weed throughout India contains substantially more Vit A than even the latest Ultra Super Duper Golden Shiny Rice the pseudoscientists saving the world preaching stopped dead in its tracks.

Yeah it's easier, more intellectually and financially rewarding to preach that a single solution invented by the high priests in their special, only we are allowed because we have the special knowledge, sanctities, will save you. Its much harder than getting out their amongst the masses and showing them how to help themselves to a weed. And of course don't forget that when things go pear shaped the pseudoscientists can hide behind at best their excuse that science "evolves" at worst the too big to fail political protection we currently see with neocorticoid pesticides and Bees.

What you are seeing is a reformation. Not against the Abrahamic religion, but Scientism/ Neomania/modernity.
I suggest you all wake up from your warm slumber and pay attention to the masses. After all they never invented religions.
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Thus sayeth Oprah.

:dl:
 
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!Kaggen said:
Vandana Shiva can debate the horn of a rhino. She is not scared of debates and I have seen her debating live in Europe with a number of GMO pseudoscientists. They sounded like stuck records.

At the time the Super Duper fantastical world saving GMO Golden Rice was being lyrically waxed as the cure to all India's panacea's by these pseudoscientists. When Vandana calmly pointed out that Coriander/dhania a common culinary herb in India that grows as a weed throughout India contains substantially more Vit A than even the latest Ultra Super Duper Golden Shiny Rice the pseudoscientists saving the world preaching stopped dead in its tracks.

Yeah it's easier, more intellectually and financially rewarding to preach that a single solution invented by the high priests in their special, only we are allowed because we have the special knowledge, sanctities, will save you. Its much harder than getting out their amongst the masses and showing them how to help themselves to a weed. And of course don't forget that when things go pear shaped the pseudoscientists can hide behind at best their excuse that science "evolves" at worst the too big to fail political protection we currently see with neocorticoid pesticides and Bees.

What you are seeing is a reformation. Not against the Abrahamic religion, but Scientism/ Neomania/modernity.
I suggest you all wake up from your warm slumber and pay attention to the masses. After all they never invented religions.
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I made almost the same argument when they invented cars. I was right, we should have stuck to walking. No one is killed in a head-on walking accident.

And now it's happening all over again. Engineers who think they know more about what's good for me than I know what's good for me. Look at what the automotive elites have gifted us with: obesity, gasoline as a major household budget item, drunk driving, highway deaths galore, road kill, and NASCAR.

Big Ag, Big Pharm, Big Auto - all the "bigs" are running the show. Ever wonder why there's a GM in GMO?
 
!Kaggen said:
Vandana Shiva can debate the horn of a rhino. She is not scared of debates and I have seen her debating live in Europe with a number of GMO pseudoscientists. They sounded like stuck records.

At the time the Super Duper fantastical world saving GMO Golden Rice was being lyrically waxed as the cure to all India's panacea's by these pseudoscientists. When Vandana calmly pointed out that Coriander/dhania a common culinary herb in India that grows as a weed throughout India contains substantially more Vit A than even the latest Ultra Super Duper Golden Shiny Rice the pseudoscientists saving the world preaching stopped dead in its tracks.
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I shouldn't go further after reading the highlighted bit.

However, we are not talking about Golden Rice are we? And from my experience it is her who sounds like a stuck record. She is an arrogant twit who lies like nobodies business. What are the issues about using coriander as a primary source of nutrition for India's poor. Do you know what coriander tastes like and how much you have to ingest to get what is required? It is used primarily to spice meat dishes.
 
marplots said:
I made almost the same argument when they invented cars. I was right, we should have stuck to walking. No one is killed in a head-on walking accident.

And now it's happening all over again. Engineers who think they know more about what's good for me than I know what's good for me. Look at what the automotive elites have gifted us with: obesity, gasoline as a major household budget item, drunk driving, highway deaths galore, road kill, and NASCAR.

Big Ag, Big Pharm, Big Auto - all the "bigs" are running the show. Ever wonder why there's a GM in GMO?
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And the citizen strikes back

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bicycle_sharing_systems
 
Susheel said:
I shouldn't go further after reading the highlighted bit.

However, we are not talking about Golden Rice are we? And from my experience it is her who sounds like a stuck record. She is an arrogant twit who lies like nobodies business. What are the issues about using coriander as a primary source of nutrition for India's poor. Do you know what coriander tastes like and how much you have to ingest to get what is required? It is used primarily to spice meat dishes.
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Oh really

http://www.vegangela.com/tag/cilantro-coriander/

50g per day provides 100% RDA
 
Besides which why is it that she hasn't been able to institute an effective nutrition initiative using her "low cost, no tech" solution despite the fact that she and her ilk does not have to jump through regulatory hoops to do so?
 
!Kaggen said:
Oh really

http://www.vegangela.com/tag/cilantro-coriander/

50g per day provides 100% RDA
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Do you know how much 50 grams of coriander amounts to. Go buy 50 grams of coriander and try to incorporate into your food requiremnts for the day, every day and see how far you get. In shops here the average consumer does not ask for 50 grams, its too much. They say "chatak" which is akin to a small clutch of the stuff and lasts for two or three days of seasoning requirements.
 
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