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Monsanto

Adding a word to a food label isn't really a burden on anyone, and it's something that you just do if enough of your customer base wants it.
It's much, much more than "adding a word to a label". The entire supply chain has to be separate - separate trucks to pick up the load from the fields, separate silos to store the grain in, separate trucks to deliver to producers, separate storage areas within producers.

Basically you add a lot of inefficiency to the food supply to accommodate ignorance and woo.
 
On any given day, it might be possible for a product to contain 100% GM items, 50%, or 0%. That number might change on a day to day basis.
Easily handled by use of the same type of language already found on many product labels: "May contain one or more of the following ingredients..."
So, even if a company uses non-GM foods 99% of the time, they'd need to slap a 'may contain GM products' on the label, even though usually it doesn't contain any.

And what about secondary effects?
Or tertiary effects, or quaternary effects... Yes, what about those?
You're the one who wants things labeled.

So, you slap a label on a can of corn made with GM corn...

What about a hamburger made from a cow that was fed GM corn? Do you consider that to be GM as well (even if the cow was 'all natural', he was still eating the evil, tainted GM feed.). Do you have to slap a label on that as well?

What about the cheese produced from the milk from a cow that was fed GM feed? Do you have to slap a GM label on that too?

You seem to think its just a simple case of "slap a label on the package". Its not.
And even if a company wanted to produce separate GM and non-GM product lines... that would basically require them to have twice the infrastructure, basically driving up the price for everyone.
I'm interested in the mathematics that support that conclusion. Please show your work.
A bakery currently sells 1000 loaves of bread. Because GM food is safe, it doesn't care whether it uses GM or non-GM wheat.

So, some government listens to idiots who say "label everything". You want to produce something to keep the idiots happy, while at the same time providing a product that is just as good but doesn't damage the environment as much.

So, You decide to produce 500 loaves of each type of bread... one GM, one non-GM. But, you can't mix the ingredients. So, you need 2 storage bins (one for flour produced from GM wheat, one for flour produced from non-GM wheat.) You may similarly need 2 different deliveries from the mills producing the flour, possibly 2 ovens (depending on how picky you have to be in separating the 2 of them). Plus, 2 different designs for packaging. (Yes they may be similar, but even a small design will require a different print run.)

Not to mention even more government bureaucracy as they have to now have inspectors checking that a company is actually adhering to the 'No GM' label.
So... food safety laws should be no more rigorous than our current capacity for enforcement?
First of all, this has nothing to do with food safety, since there is no firm evidence that GM food is harmful in any way.

Secondly, enforcing labeling will require more work from government inspectors. How do they know that they didn't let any GM food slip into the Non-GM product line? It will require additional tests (if its even possible to detect such things.... I suspect in most cases its not). Or, someone is going to audit a lot of paperwork, wander though processing plants, etc.

Just out of curiosity, how exactly do you think they were going to verify that food labeled 'GM-free' actually was 'GM-free'?

If we're going to let that tail wag the dog, then, considering how inadequate the available resources are now, wouldn't logic dictate that we repeal some of the food safety laws already in place?
Ummm... no.

Food safety laws are there for food safety. GM labeling laws are there to satisfy irrational idiots. I'd rather not see my tax dollars being spent for inspectors to check for GMO content. I'd rather see them spending their time ensuring my food was healthy.

there are limits to just how far your 'information' will go.
Wait. Consumers don't have a right to be better informed because they will never be perfectly informed?
Its not a case of them "never being perfectly informed". Its just that the extra information that they want to give costs money (for both the taxpayer and the company), will harm the environment, and does absolutely nothing to help public health.

That's why we don't expect to see a list of pesticides used when growing the corn that made my corn flakes in the morning... that information would do absolutely nothing to improve anyone's health, and would be extremely burdensome for producers.

there is no religion that I'm aware of that specifically targets genetic modification.
You may be underestimating the ability of religious people to find scriptural support for their irrational notions -- but what I find most interesting about your comment is that it implies that if there were a religion that specifically targeted genetic modification, that would be a different matter.
I wasn't the one who brought up the religious angle. Someone else did.

Saying that there are no religions that I'm aware of that ban GM food was just the easiest way to deal with the argument.

So, what your saying is because people are idiots we should always accept what they do?
Irrational and stupid are not the same thing.
Functionally they are, at least in this case.

What, people don't have a right to base those decisions on gut instinct?
People have the right to hold whatever opinions they want. I have the right to call them idiots for holding those beliefs.

ETA: And I am going to be especially keen to point out when people are believing in nonsense, if their nonsense harms me in any way (increasing the cost of my food, increased taxes, harming the environment.)
 
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It's much, much more than "adding a word to a label". The entire supply chain has to be separate - separate trucks to pick up the load from the fields, separate silos to store the grain in, separate trucks to deliver to producers, separate storage areas within producers.
Not only that, how exactly are they going to verify that the 'pure, non-GMO food' wasn't somehow contaminated with GM varieties during growing?

Are farmers going to have to keep the crops a minimum of 100 yards apart to ensure that no GM seeds landed in the 'organic' field? What about cross-pollination? (Maybe farmers will have to hire hunters to sit on the border with guns to shoot any bees that happen to cross the boundary.)
 
What if someone insisted they wanted their goat milk labeled to indicate whether it came from breeds of goats genetically modified to add spider silk protein to their milk?

Spider goats

Those goats are not going into the food supply so what's your point? Perhaps when someone makes a silk scarf (or some other industrial use for silk) from said goats you think it should be labeled that the source was goats and not spiders?
 
Not only that, how exactly are they going to verify that the 'pure, non-GMO food' wasn't somehow contaminated with GM varieties during growing?

Are farmers going to have to keep the crops a minimum of 100 yards apart to ensure that no GM seeds landed in the 'organic' field? What about cross-pollination? (Maybe farmers will have to hire hunters to sit on the border with guns to shoot any bees that happen to cross the boundary.)
Interesting point. So what you're basically saying is that the whole idea of labeling products "GMO-free" is a nonstarter because there is no practical way of containing GMO strains once they have been introduced, or even differentiating between GMO and non-GMO. The toothpaste is out of the tube, and anyone fussy about GMO food (for whatever reason) might as well just STFU.
 
Those goats are not going into the food supply so what's your point?
A point I believe I already mentioned is that goats are notorious escape artists -- and I think we've just decided that once a genetically modified organism is released into the environment, there is no way of guaranteeing... well, much of anything, really. But I mainly brought up the spider goats as a sort of touchstone; a benchmark for the "ick" factor.
 
From and E,B&F standpoint, Monsanto has a number of problematic issues arising from it's market dominance and it's abusive legal practices:

1) Monsanto represents a monopoly or near-monopoly/oligopoly in many seed markets. It routinely uses that power to force down/out competition from other companies, much as Microsoft does in software development:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/13/monsanto-squeezes-out-see_n_390354.html

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...how-monsanto-controls-the-future-of-food.aspx

2) Monsanto abuses patent law and contract rights to unjustly penalize innocent third parties whose non-Monsanto crops become contaminated with pollen from Monsanto originated plants.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/home...ty-in-trouble-zwfz1303zkin.aspx#axzz2UJB8uvcq

http://thegranddisillusion.wordpress.com/monsanto-vs-farmer/

http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/files/cfsmonsantovsfarmerreport11305.pdf

3) Monsanto seeks to corrupt the political and regulatory process to it's benefit:

http://www.eatdrinkpolitics.com/201...s-up-with-congress-to-shred-the-constitution/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michele-simon/monsanto-protection-act_b_3327270.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/monsanto-protection-act_n_3322180.html

On a skeptic site.

:dl:
 
Monsanto is a favorite target of woos who have little to no knowledge of science, agriculture, or economics and have a knee-jerk reaction to anything "corporate".

This.

The nut right has global warming, the nut left, Monsanto.

Both groups are equally stupid.
 
I thought quoting Mercola was against the rules? What's next? Dr. Oz? Dr. Phil? Dr. Ruckman? Doctor Hovind?

I'd rather get medical advice from Doctor Who or Dr. Strangelove.
 
Monsanto is a favorite target of woos who have little to no knowledge of science, agriculture, or economics and have a knee-jerk reaction to anything "corporate".
Careful. Fallacies are lurking everywhere.
Guilt by association can sometimes also be a type of ad hominem fallacy, if the argument attacks a person because of the similarity between the views of someone making an argument and other proponents of the argument.

This form of the argument is as follows:

Source S makes claim C.
Group G, which is currently viewed negatively by the recipient, also makes claim C.
Therefore, source S is viewed by the recipient of the claim as associated to the group G and inherits how negatively viewed it is.
An example of this fallacy would be "My opponent for office just received an endorsement from the Puppy Haters Association. Is that the sort of person you would want to vote for?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
 
Name one small farmer getting sued who wasn't found to be deliberately violating Monsanto's patents. If you do you'll be the first person on this forum who has done so.

I don't even have to click your link to know you're blowing the same old debunked nonsense.

Exactly.

I've been waiting years for the same answer.***




***Note to nutwads: "Vernon Bowman" is also an incorrect answer.
 
Without even going into that, it seems to me that it might be reasonably argued that people have a right to some say-so regarding what goes into their food.

Of course they do. Just like I have a right to say what goes into my shirt. But unless I'm willing to sew it myself, then I'm pretty much limited to what the market provides.
 
Red herring. As I said in my previous post, the FDA (you know, the Food and Drug Administration) has deemed GMO crops safe to use. Do any of the people railing against these crops have any evidence that they are in any way unsafe?

No.

I've found they pretty much only have YouTube videos and Oprah reruns.
 
How/why is it "ignorant" to oppose tampering with the very basis of human survival (the food supply)?

It's funny that you don't oppose that the Indians "tampered" with wild grasses to create corn a thousand years ago.

Or to oppose unjust patenting of genetic material in such a way as to force others to pay Monsanto money just in order to use what nature/God provided for us to use?

Name a single person/entity that has been "forced" to pay Monsanto in order to "use what nature/God provided for us to use". Just one.

And how is it in any way just for Monsanto to not only be immunized from responsibility for harming other farmers' crops (as I documented)...

You "documented" nothing but nonsense.

...but to turn around and attack the FARMERS whose crops they harm (as I also documented)?

See above. Repeating nonsense doesn't somehow make it not nonsense.
 
Horse manure! Wanting to protect the very basis of human survival (food) is not "having an axe to grind", and the scientific case against GMO is already well documented.

The only "scientists" who insist GMO is safe are those shilling for their bosses in Big Agriculture.



No, you'll get a bunch of corporatist stooges who refuse to apply "critical thinking" to the claims of Monsanto, et al while excoriating GMO opponents as "woo".



1) Argument from popularity/consensus.

2) "Most people here" are wrong.



That does not mean that we should allow them to do so, esp using methods such as those employed by Monsanto.






Then why did it just pay Senator Blunt of MO $166,000 in campaign contributions to sneak through legislation immunizing them from lawsuits for harm they cause and then blocking every effort to repeal that law?



Oh no you don't. With all Foods and Drugs, the standard is that the purveyor (in this case Monsanto) must prove LACK of harm.

This is because of the fundamental nature of foods and drugs as basic survival means, and the overwhelming imperative to protect those means from being tampered with.



Who may start coming down with cancer or other genetic problems 20 years from now.



It saves farmers money to force them to buy new seed every year instead of saving back a portion of the previous year's crop as has been done for 1000s of years?

Pull the other one.

Oh, and about the environment:

Pesticide resistant weeds due to GMO

GMO INCREASES use of pesticides

Expert calls for GMO restriction due to resistant weeds


The facts are a matter of public record. I cited them in the OP, and I did again just above.



It isn't the "poor individual" that is tampering with the basic genetic codes of foods in an unnatural way that is not proven safe. It isn't the "poor individual" who has controlled the market for seeds such that 80 to 95% of many seed markets are dominated by Big Agriculture.

It is, in fact, MONSANTO and the other "bio-tech" agribusinesses who are doing both.

What color is the sky in your world?
 

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