Monroe Institute

[Denver]

Should this be in a new thread? I'm not sure what this has to do with the Monroe Institute.

 

[Pixel42]

Here are the initial components of my protocol. Use multiple layers of blinding. A recruiter finds people to fill different roles - a purchaser of spoons and forks from a store such as Target. The purchaser also buys a lockable briefcase from Staples or Office Depot. The utensils are placed in the briefcase and the briefcase is locked. It is handed off to a briefcase handler who doesn't know the lock code. Only the purchaser knows the code and once he has handed it off, he has no more interaction with the briefcase. The handler delivers the briefcase to a university employed metallurgist. The metallurgist examines every utensil and performs whatever tests he feels necessary on a sample of the utensils. He etches a small mark at the base of each utensil, puts them all back in the briefcase, closes and locks the briefcase. He gives the briefcase back to the handler. The handler delivers the briefcase to the spoon bending test location on the evening of the bending exercise. The melatallurgist is there to open the briefcase and verify the utensils appear to be the same ones he examined and marked. An illusionist is there to examine the utensils and comment on whether he finds anything odd about the utensils.

Let's end there for now. This is the handling and testing portion of the protocol. Anything you can think of that would strengthen this segment?

You haven't stated what the utensils will be made of. Utensils come in many varieties, they are made of many different kinds of metal/metal alloy, some of which are far more pliable than others. You need to specify exactly which type(s) you are going to use. You also need to establish how easily bent each type is so you can specify reasonable success criteria.

 

[dlorde]

I'd like to know exactly what the hypothesis is that will be tested.

 

[jfish]

The hypothesis is that some people have the ability to bend spoons and forks using far less force than conventional metallurgical science would say is necessary. The null hypothesis is there aren't any individuals who can accomplish this.

Dlorde - thanks for the comment. I was aware that there can be varying thicknesses. I'll have to do some research into the alternative types of alloys.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

The hypothesis is that some people have the ability to bend spoons and forks using far less force than conventional metallurgical science would say is necessary. The null hypothesis is there aren't any individuals who can accomplish this.

If that is the hypothesis, it is going to be hard to test. If someone bends a spoon between his finger and thumb, how do you determine he just does not have very strong muscles?

Dlorde - thanks for the comment. I was aware that there can be varying thicknesses. I'll have to do some research into the alternative types of alloys.

Since the spoon bending trick is done by pre-bending a spoon almost to breaking point and then just selecting that spoon at "random" from a tray of mixed spoons, just make all the spoons the same and then don't let anyone near them before the test.

It ain't rocket surgery or brain science.

 

[MuDPhuD]

All the preparations in the world will be for naught if you are going to touch the spoons.
If the hypothesis is that some people "use less force than conventional science says is necessary", than you are admitting that the bending is being done by muscular force, not by mental magic.
You will need an apparatus to measure force applied to a series of identical spoons (same brand and style) in the two conditions, that is 1) with no concentration, and 2) while praying, or whatever form of mental effort you are using.
I would be convinced by an apparatus into which a spoon is placed (why spoons particularly?) which then applies gradually increasing force until the spoon bends, that is it measures the yield force of the spoon. This force should be shown to be approximately the same in a series of spoons of the same make and model. Then use the bending machine while focussing your "metal weakening mental forces" upon the fulcrum point while the mechanical bender ramps up the applied force. If the mental effort weakens the metal, then the bending machine will show that the spoons bend at a consistently lower level of force, that is you will have altered the yield force of the metal object. Decide how many spoons in each group ahead of time, say 20. Then you will be able to show if the two groups of spoons have a different measured yield force in the two conditions.

 

[jfish]

The controls I've outlined are intended to prevent spoons or forks from being altered between the purchase of the flatware and the bending session other than to have the metallurgist examine and mark the flatware. The metallurgist is unaware of the purpose of his testing - he/she won't know the subsequent steps in the sequence until after the testing is complete and he has turned over the locked briefcase.

I'm trying to determine if there is testing equipment as suggested by MuDPhuD. I sent an email off to a graduate student in a materials science program but I haven't heard back yet.

It would be ideal to have no physical contact between the subjects and the spoons & forks. I haven't seen this done before. My past observations in an uncontrolled setting have always involved subjects holding the flatware. This does add an aspect that has to be controlled - the flatware has to be in sight 100% of the time, one hand holds the base of the flatware, only 1 finger of the other hand is allowed to push on the top of the flatware. If I can identify some easily transportable equipment that would exert and measure the pressure (rather than using the finger), that would enhance the controls.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

The controls I've outlined are intended to prevent spoons or forks from being altered between the purchase of the flatware and the bending session other than to have the metallurgist examine and mark the flatware. The metallurgist is unaware of the purpose of his testing - he/she won't know the subsequent steps in the sequence until after the testing is complete and he has turned over the locked briefcase.

I'm trying to determine if there is testing equipment as suggested by MuDPhuD. I sent an email off to a graduate student in a materials science program but I haven't heard back yet.

It would be ideal to have no physical contact between the subjects and the spoons & forks. I haven't seen this done before. My past observations in an uncontrolled setting have always involved subjects holding the flatware. This does add an aspect that has to be controlled - the flatware has to be in sight 100% of the time, one hand holds the base of the flatware, only 1 finger of the other hand is allowed to push on the top of the flatware. If I can identify some easily transportable equipment that would exert and measure the pressure (rather than using the finger), that would enhance the controls.

Take things a step at a time. You don't need to measure anything until the effect has been demonstrated. For a start, the bender has to agree to the test protocols you have described. You won't get anyone (sane) who'll agree because it can't be done.

 

[MuDPhuD]

Take things a step at a time. You don't need to measure anything until the effect has been demonstrated. For a start, the bender has to agree to the test protocols you have described. You won't get anyone (sane) who'll agree because it can't be done.

He said he has done it himself.

 

[Joey McGee]

I sent an email off to a graduate student in a materials science program but I haven't heard back yet.

Surprising. Perhaps you should try someone who is retired who doesn't have their reputation and self-respect to lose?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

He said he has done it himself.

No. No. I'm not going there.

 

[Pixel42]

Well I've learnt something from this thread: Americans don't call cutlery cutlery, they call it flatware, which in the UK is another word for plates.

the flatware has to be in sight 100% of the time, one hand holds the base of the flatware, only 1 finger of the other hand is allowed to push on the top of the flatware.

Cheap cutlery could probably be bent like that even if it wasn't pre weakened by being bent and then straightened a few times; certainly a little pre weakening would do the trick (in both senses of the phrase). Obviously any number of observations of this occurring, even if you were the one doing the bending, would be insufficient to conclude that there is anything to supernatural spoon bending.

 

[Loss Leader]

I can't imagine a test being free from cheating so long as the claimant is allowed to touch the metal in any way.

If cutlery can be bent, certainly the claimant can produce an effect on a more uniform substance. I would start with finding out exactly what power it is your subject is claiming. The power to bend spoons and only spoons seems uselessly stupid.

 

[dlorde]

My physical protocol would, at a minimum, involve the 'benders' putting one arm through a hole in a board, up to the elbow, so the hand was well clear of any surfaces they could touch the utensil against. They'd use one hand only and the board would be big enough to prevent them reaching round with the other hand.

I'd also like to see attempts to bend short sections of a utensil cut from relevant parts of the whole, so no leverage is available. If the claim is that the metal softens when bending, this should not be a problem.

 

[JPK]

Good morning. Just a point about the choice of spoons or forks or any other kind of serving utensils. Having purchased over a thousand of cheap spoons and forks from a certain Mega-Mart, I can assure you that the consistency in their ability to resist bending is very poor. You can get some that bend quite easily while others of the same kind and batch will be much harder to bend. Why is this? Simple. It's made for eating with and not required to meet stringent quality control when it comes to bending. If someone wants to test their ability of bending metal, then getting some metal stock that is consistent in it metallurgy would be the way to go Unless of course the claim is that this amazing psychic ability is limited to its manipulation of spoons. Is it the material or the physical object itself? What about plastic, wooden, or ceramic spoons? If it is metal that is the claim, go to a supplier of metal stock and have consistent pieces produced for the test. Bars, rods, whatever. Just a suggestion.
ETA: For the record, the reason I've purchased those spoons and forks in those quantities is because I too bend spoons and forks. I just do it the easy way.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Good morning. Just a point about the choice of spoons or forks or any other kind of serving utensils. Having purchased over a thousand of cheap spoons and forks from a certain Mega-Mart, I can assure you that the consistency in their ability to resist bending is very poor. You can get some that bend quite easily while others of the same kind and batch will be much harder to bend. Why is this? Simple. It's made for eating with and not required to meet stringent quality control when it comes to bending. If someone wants to test their ability of bending metal, then getting some metal stock that is consistent in it metallurgy would be the way to go Unless of course the claim is that this amazing psychic ability is limited to its manipulation of spoons. Is it the material or the physical object itself? What about plastic, wooden, or ceramic spoons? If it is metal that is the claim, go to a supplier of metal stock and have consistent pieces produced for the test. Bars, rods, whatever. Just a suggestion.
ETA: For the record, the reason I've purchased those spoons and forks in those quantities is because I too bend spoons and forks. I just do it the easy way.

Or you could just buy a bunch of spoons and QA them by attempting to bend each one by natural non-psychic means and then use the ones that don't bend that way.

 

[JPK]

Good afternoon Gord_in_Toronto

Or you could just buy a bunch of spoons and QA them by attempting to bend each one by natural non-psychic means and then use the ones that don't bend that way.

Of course you could. Use whatever material you like and use some form of objectively testable means to see what it takes to bend them. I admit, I don't understand the the claim. What is the difference between bending a sheet of aluminum foil and a 4 inch thick piece of steel if you are doing it with your mind?

 

[JesseCuster]

Newbie injercting here but, having quickly blasted my through this thread, I have to ask the obvious question...

Has anything beyond bending spoons been claimed? I'd hate to attend classes and dedicate a lot of my free time to an institute like this only to have the only positive proof of my abilities being that of a known proven parlor trick.

Or am I missing something?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Newbie injercting here but, having quickly blasted my through this thread, I have to ask the obvious question...

Has anything beyond bending spoons been claimed? I'd hate to attend classes and dedicate a lot of my free time to an institute like this only to have the only positive proof of my abilities being that of a known proven parlor trick.

Or am I missing something?

Welcome to the Forum Jesse.

Are missing anything? No. Probably not.

 

[JPK]

Good morning JesseCuster

Newbie injercting here but, having quickly blasted my through this thread, I have to ask the obvious question...

Has anything beyond bending spoons been claimed? I'd hate to attend classes and dedicate a lot of my free time to an institute like this only to have the only positive proof of my abilities being that of a known proven parlor trick.

Or am I missing something?

You seem to have got it. You can hire a mentor,take some classes
or even better, purchase some books on magic and learn how to bend all sorts of things in a number of different ways for far less money than the Monroe Institute will set you back. Of course doing it like that might not give you the warm fuzzy feeling of believing you are superhuman with super powers. It's kind of a trade off. Actual knowledge and understanding of what you are doing vs. being duped out of your cash by people who will lead you to some mystical world of fantasy where you can deceive yourself and believe you are super special with amazing powers. Hmmm. What's their address again?