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Monroe Institute

The value one gets from a Gateway experience is something that can only be judged by each individual. If someone is interested in exploring the possibility that he/she is more than a brain housed in a physical body that comes to an end when the body dies, the Monroe Institute offers a means of exploring that possibility. Since there is no guarantee of an outcome, one has to weigh his own cost/benefit ratio to determine whether this is a desirable course to take. Because of my extensive readings about NDEs and having met several people who shared their personal experiences, I was perhaps more inclined to believe there is something worth exploring than someone who hasn't read the literature (or has read the literature but has come to a different conclusion than I). My personal valuation of the potential benefit was likely much higher than the benefit most others would perceive before attending. On the cost side of the equation, I probably have more disposable personal income than most. Since I perceive the potential being high for a benefit and the cost is not that significant to me, it should be apparent why I reached the conclusion to attend. The bent flatware was interesting. From my point of view if there is an ability to bend flatware, it is of only minor significance. There are other programs I'd take as a follow up to the Gateway Voyage but that is only my subjective valuation.
 
jfish,

I take it then that the experience matched your expectations? Have you decided on whether to continue your explorations and do you know what your next adventure will be yet?
 
I suspect jfish could describe some interesting experiences in detail but may be reluctant to experience the ridicule that would surely follow in this forum. Someone who is firmly rooted in scientific naturalism might find jfish's experiences in direct confrontation with their belief system. I would like to hear more.
 
jfish said:
In the past 24 hours I've been giving some thought to the conversations we've had over the past week and I've been considering my motives for participating. What I'm about to say is not intended to be taken negatively.

In retrospect I had hoped to find a group of people who, when presented with some challenging studies by credible researchers, would be willing to explore the implications and welcome additional information - perhaps even adding some new insights and experiences of their own. I recognized that my point of view is not the norm and accepted that going in. The reference point of most participants seems to place a much higher priority on being a sceptic than exploring ramifications if some of what is presented is true (not necessarily provable, but potentially true). Consequently, the content of our discussions has not been in the direction I had sought. Again, this isn't intended to be a cricitism. Scepticism is an important element of any investigative effort. For me it seems the balance is too heavily weighted toward rejection rather than exploration.

I've considered whether to start another thread where other people's first hand experiences as reported to me could be shared and see where they might lead our discussion. A decision on that alternative will have to wait until next month. Another option is to create a continuing ed course and try to market the concept to one of the local colleges where I live. The shortcoming in that approach is I might get too many participants at the other end of the spectrum - who accept the material without any critical thinking.

I tend to think I won't get much useful participation (with a couple of exceptions) from this venue. I'm not concerned about the tone some take in responding to my comments. Who the comments reflect on is all dependent on the reader's point of view.

This imagery struck me last night - we spend our lives building wonderful sand castles that are increasingly complex. But a musician I admire once sang "and so castles made of sand wash into the sea, eventually". For me its time to play in the sea and not worry so much about the sand castles others are defending.
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You might want to have a look at this thread
 
My exploratory nature compels me to continue seeking experiences and knowledge. I've had another unique experience this week. It is hard to describe but I'll make an effort. I had gone through a guided session (guidance coming from a CD I received at the Monroe Institute) of expanded awareness and was coming back to normal physical consciousness. I didn't experience anything really remarkable in the session until I came back to the fully conscious state. At that time I felt I had an etherial body that was slightly bigger than my physical body and it (my etherial body) sank back into my physical form. It was a momentary sensation that might have simply been imagery my mind created.

I'm visiting my wife's extended family over the holidays. One sister-in-law asked me about a book I am reading. It is titled Adventures Beyond The Body. After giving her an overview she commented that she had had an out-of-body experience many years ago. It didn't last long. While floating above her body she heard a strong voice articulate something like 'Not now, you aren't ready.' It sufficiently frightened her such that she refuses to explore this.
 
jfish said:
My exploratory nature compels me to continue seeking experiences and knowledge. I've had another unique experience this week. It is hard to describe but I'll make an effort. I had gone through a guided session (guidance coming from a CD I received at the Monroe Institute) of expanded awareness and was coming back to normal physical consciousness. I didn't experience anything really remarkable in the session until I came back to the fully conscious state. At that time I felt I had an etherial body that was slightly bigger than my physical body and it (my etherial body) sank back into my physical form. It was a momentary sensation that might have simply been imagery my mind created.
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Now that wasn't difficult to admit, was it?
 
I wouldn't chose to use the word "admit". It connotes a sense of being wrong earlier. I haven't claimed that anything I've experienced to date was something more than imagery my mind created.

I've recently been studying out-of-body issues and have started attempting to achieve such a state. I've had some interesting sensations and imagery thus far that are consistent with what is reported as preludes to OOB. These sources/books also indicate there is a very clear difference between imagery and actually experiencing consciousness outside one's body. When one's consciousness fully leaves one's body, it is clear to the experiencer that this is different. If/when I cross that line, I'll report it. Until then, my experiences are interesting but are still in the realm of imagery created by my mind.
 
jfish said:
I wouldn't chose to use the word "admit". It connotes a sense of being wrong earlier. I haven't claimed that anything I've experienced to date was something more than imagery my mind created.

I've recently been studying out-of-body issues and have started attempting to achieve such a state. I've had some interesting sensations and imagery thus far that are consistent with what is reported as preludes to OOB. These sources/books also indicate there is a very clear difference between imagery and actually experiencing consciousness outside one's body. When one's consciousness fully leaves one's body, it is clear to the experiencer that this is different. If/when I cross that line, I'll report it. Until then, my experiences are interesting but are still in the realm of imagery created by my mind.
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Maybe acknowledge would have been more precise on my part.
 
jfish,
How does the prospect of these experiences fit with any other religious or world views that you may have?
 
Here's an easy way to test the legitimacy of your out of body experiences. Get someone to write something on a bit of paper and leave it somewhere where you can't see it - say on top of a cupboard. Even better, get someone you know to ask someone you don't know to write something on a bit of paper so that you don't know anyone who knows what's written on there and can't get any subconscious clues. Make sure that what's written on the paper isn't something simple like "Hello", but something less easy to guess (but clear and in English) like "marmalade".

When you're having an OBE, try to determine what's written on the paper. If you're successful without cheating, then it's worth considering that there's something in it. If you're not, then it's worth considering that there isn't. Equally, try to find others who claim the ability and see if they'll agree to be tested like this.

My prediction? Very few will consent to being tested, and those who do will either fail or cheat. But it seems like a worthwhile test if you're honestly interested in verifying the veracity of these experiences before denouncing science and rational thinking as castles made of sand which will be washed away.
 
Regarding my religious views - they have evolved considerably over the past decade independently of my Monroe experience. Throughout my life I've been an active participant in a mainline protestant denomination and have been in leadership positions at the churchs I have attended. My research into near death experiences starting in 2002 produced some conflicts between traditional religious beliefs and what NDErs were experiencing. Perhaps the most obvious was the nature of judgement. NDErs who had life reviews were judging themselves rather than being judged by Jesus or some other entity. The more I read, the more I came to realize my past understandings were based on an ancient set of beliefs and were in need of a serious update. A big part of my ongoing journey is to refashion my beliefs to be more in concert with the things I'm learning. I'm beginning to develop an outline for a college course I'm thinking of offering next fall on consciousness and reality.

Regarding OBE proof as suggested by Sceptic Tank - Thomas Campbell claims that he did this during his years of work with Robert Monroe. I think I recall reading it in his book My Big TOE but I might also have read it in one of Robert Monroe's books. I get the impression that once one has successfully achieved a fully conscious altered state or OBE, the importance of proving the ability to others isn't as interesting a proposition as dedicating oneself to exploring the new reality. Since I haven't achieved that state, I can't speak from experience. From my perspective right now, I'd like to be able to do that (offer proof) but I haven't made it to the other side as yet. Also, I suspect that even if I were able to do that, only those people who were physically present would believe it. While I've tried to be as open and honest as possible in my postings, I doubt there are any readers who would take my word for it if I were to report I was successful.
 
Jfish – I felt compelled to register, as I stumbled upon this forum and thread by accident when googling for more info on the Monroe Institute and feel I am on the same path as you, however, just at the very start.

I was experiencing sleep paralysis accompanied vibrations and I was scared by this experience so I went online to discover what it could be, some sites linked to sleep paralysis medical sites and others, to my surprise, psychic websites. The latter being a possibility I had never considered.

Anyway, through reading things I got on to the Monroe books and have just finished his 2nd book, Far Journeys after reading Journey’s out of the body – I am about to commence his final one. I’ve been lucid dreaming on and off for 5 years, I can’t bring one on purposely very often, only in a light state of sleep and then rarely. I can only do it purposely if I have wakened from one and fall asleep again immediately. However, it has led me to consider other things about life more than the physical experience, especially given that to me, being in this state feels as real as anything I am experiencing during normal waking consciousness. I clearly recall one night I was snoozing on the couch and I felt strange so I got up and stood in the middle of the room, I seemed to realise that I was lucid dreaming and turned round to see myself sleeping on the couch. This could have been a vivid dream, because, I have no evidence to prove otherwise. I just feel that this is worth considering.

I am attending one of the Monroe Institute weekend excursions this weekend on how to achieve different focuses during meditation, if you are interested I can let you know what it is like.

I know you may not want to post your experiences about your Gateway Voyage program on here, but if you wanted to PM me, I’d be very interested in hearing more details about your experience and what happened.

From reading this thread it appears there are a lot of methodical/logical thinking people on this site who have never had any experiences like this and are very quick to dismiss the notion of anything spiritual or what would be deemed supernatural as they have not experienced anything that would compel them to. I was one of them until I started to experience these things myself and decided to research further. I’m also not religious whatsoever.

Lest ye see miracles ye will not believe.

I’ve not seen a miracle, but I feel that I’ve touched on something that is worth considering and exploring further.
 
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Can either of you answer something that puzzles me?

I'm curious to know if you think lucid dreaming is more than, well... dreaming?

I only ask because what I've experienced I had no trouble merely classifying as a dream state -- strange, I'll admit, but I didn't think of it as a wholly different animal.
 
thebigm said:
From reading this thread it appears there are a lot of methodical/logical thinking people on this site who have never had any experiences like this and are very quick to dismiss the notion of anything spiritual or what would be deemed supernatural as they have not experienced anything that would compel them to.
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This is a false (though common) assumption. Plenty of sceptics have had such experiences, and after exploring all possibilities (not just the ones they would like to be true) have eventually reached the conclusion that supernatural explanations are by far the least likely. If anything sceptics are more likely to have had such experiences than is usually the case, as it was just such experiences that led them to look into subjects most people never take much interest in.
 
thebigm said:
From reading this thread it appears there are a lot of methodical/logical thinking people on this site who have never had any experiences like this and are very quick to dismiss the notion of anything spiritual or what would be deemed supernatural as they have not experienced anything that would compel them to.
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How do you imagine many skeptics begin? Once you realize there can be many natural explanations for a phenomenon that at first credulous blush appears paranormal, you then begin to look at similiar situations more critically. The claim "you just haven't had your own experience" is pretty hackneyed I'm afraid.
 
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Resume said:
How do you imagine many skeptics begin? Once you realize there can be many natural explanations for a phenomenon that at first credulous blush appears paranormal, you then begin to look at similiar situations more critically. The claim "you just haven't had your own experience" is pretty hackneyed I'm afraid.
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Concur. I had a number of experiences I couldn't explain: I saw a few "ghosts," had an out-of-body incident, and had a couple of dreams that came true. But I kept looking into possible reasons for these occurences, and found that natural, skeptical explanations made far more sense than the paranormal.
 
I love all that stuff - lucid dreams, flying & levitating dreams, OBEs, etc. I've had a few OBEs (induced by intoxicants or illness), but what I experienced, though in part detailed, was at best a rough approximation of what was really there, and mostly quite different. I have no doubt they were internally generated - they had common features with my dreamscapes. Looking back, it's entirely possible that a couple of them might actually have been dreams; it wouldn't be the first time I mistook an ancient dream memory for the real thing...:rolleyes:

It is now recognised that the brain systems involved in different states of consciousness can be, and are, active/inactive in various combinations and that partial dream states while apparently fully conscious are not uncommon. The surprising part is how little we notice these overlapping states in everyday life.
 
Apologies for the comment making an assumption that skeptics were so because they were without experience.
 
marplots said:
Can either of you answer something that puzzles me?

I'm curious to know if you think lucid dreaming is more than, well... dreaming?

I only ask because what I've experienced I had no trouble merely classifying as a dream state -- strange, I'll admit, but I didn't think of it as a wholly different animal.
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I am not sure. A lucid dream to me feels as real as anything that's happening in the waking physical world, perhaps more real because you are without restriction.

I'm really unsure, all I know is that something in it, to me, makes it feel like it's worth pursuing further. I'm speaking purely on a personal development front.
 
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