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Moneymakin'! The BFRO Bigfoot Expeditions Thread.

If there were an adult male gorilla stealing your corn, you'd call the police.

The police would investigate, and call some experts from the local zoo or university.

They would all go out there, and since you are telling the truth, it would be readily apparent that there is indeed a gorilla loose in the woods. There would be no doubt just from the tracks and other sign.

Since a gorilla wandering around the woods is dangerous, particularly one that has learned to get food from people, a great effort would be made to capture the gorilla.

It would be captured and taken care of, of course.

:sdl: A gorilla! Yeah. You are going to phone in a gorilla is on the loose. I can see it now. Dispatcher asking you where, what time, describe it, are you SURE its a gorilla. Then at that point you could say you REALLY think its a Bigfoot, but figured that it COULD be a gorilla, and that you`d at least send someone out to try to capture a gorilla.
At that point they might ask you if you may have seen a bear. Where then you`d say absolutely not. A gorilla! Mayyyybe a bigfoot. But definitely not a bear, for sure! And to please send somebody out quick, and not to forget big nets and a tranqualizer gun.
 
:sdl: A gorilla! Yeah. You are going to phone in a gorilla is on the loose. I can see it now. Dispatcher asking you where, what time, describe it, are you SURE its a gorilla. Then at that point you could say you REALLY think its a Bigfoot, but figured that it COULD be a gorilla, and that you`d at least send someone out to try to capture a gorilla.
At that point they might ask you if you may have seen a bear. Where then you`d say absolutely not. A gorilla! Mayyyybe a bigfoot. But definitely not a bear, for sure! And to please send somebody out quick, and not to forget big nets and a tranqualizer gun.

Sure, they might initially think it was a bear. But a bear stealing corn and getting familiar with people is also quite dangerous. So they would still come and investigate.

And when they do, if you really saw a gorilla, it will be obvious. If you really saw a bear, it will be obvious. If you really saw a bigfoot, no one will be able to tell.

Besides, you could easily get a recognizable picture if it was a bear or a gorilla, but not if it was a bigfoot.

Bigfoot is always unverifiable.
 
I think the point of this rhetorical exercise is that people who claim to "know" that they saw some really large and dangerous creature never seem confident enough to really report it to the people who matter. Instead, they report it to their Bigfoot treehouse club. This behavior strongly suggests that the entire story of the alleged encounter is made up, or at least that the "witness" isn't nearly as confident in the identification ad they claim to be.
 
And yet a primate out of place might be taken seriously. A Kansas City chimp figured out how to escape his enclosure recently. True, no chimpanzees managed to make it to the wilds, but if one had....

If unsure about how a bigfoot report might be accepted by the police, one could simply report "A large animal's loose on this land."

ETA: Valentine's day is past, but anyhow--

My blurry bigfoot guy,
Nine foot tall bigfoot guy,
You make me think that I’m nuts….
You’re just unbearable,
Unverifiable,
You pile up brush into huts.

Does your footprint show a break?
Do you steal canned beans and steak?
Are your toenails like a rake?
How’s your butt?

You don’t have to pose for me,
Or wipe your nose for me,
Blur, great big bigfoot guy, blur!
And each pic will show bigfoot, sir!
 
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Again though it's all rather silly to think about.

If Bigfoot wasn't a myth police departments would already be familiar with them and have procedures for when they get too close to people. They would have already killed some that "crossed the line" and that would be a quote from the Chief of Police.

But Bigfoot doesn't exist at all and I think most Bigfoot Believers know that just the same as you and I.
 
In reality, wouldn`t the police answering the phone say they dont have the manpower and resources for such stuff, then politely dismiss you, hangup, then giggle with their fellow officers how some guy one pickle short called in about seeing a giant bigfoot?

Depends on where you are at. When I was with the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) I investigated two such cases and the policy has not changed. If it is rural enough and the complainant comes in personally - a file will be generated.
I should also add that the current Deputy Commissioner of the RCMP investigated a sasquatch sighting back in the mid 1980s.
 
Yes, and then the MIB came and confiscated it in their Black UH-1 Helicopter, and zapped everyone with the memory erasing wand.
 
"Hello? Police? There's a big, creepy guy out here in a fur suit. I'm afraid he might be a danger to himself or others..."
 
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Law enforcement would be able to confirm the Wood Apes at Area X on the same day that they would be there. But they won't ever be called there. Those Bigfooters know that they have no apes.
 
They won't be called there for a Wood Ape sighting, they might be called there for any other illegal activities that might be taking place.

In either case however, they would be able to confirm whether there was a Giant Hairy Ape man marauding through the semi-mature scrub forest in the area.
 
Maybe because your stories are lame-o. Come on, dude. They need to be juicy. Anybody can tell yarns about blobby whatsamajiggers and feeling faint. Work in some infrasound zapping, glowing red eyes, pig throwing, rock attacks and stuff. Bared fangs and roaring always goes over well. To stand out from the also rans you gotta have some action.

And here lies the Bigfoot Report Paradox:

If you report a fleeting view or a blurry thermal, then it will get blown off as not good enough to count.

If you make it all juicy, so it gets noticed, you end up throwing in a little too much and give yourself away.
 
And did he find it?

Actually - she. ;)

No, but there was a statement taken and a perusal of the area.
A trackway was found off the paved hwy. where the alleged sighting took place. The ground was covered in tall dead grass so identification was impossible.
The barbed wire fence encircling the field was checked for hair and cow hair was found.
A person known for their tracking abilities was asked to assist and he believed the trackway was that of a quadruped - most likely a bear.

BTW - the files are coded under the general title of "Assist General Public".

Edited to add: You may note in perusing reports by John Green that the RCMP has been involved in numerous sighting investigations. Major newspapers also have carried stories whereby they note the RCMP investigation and results - sometimes interviewing the officer involved.
 
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Law enforcement would be able to confirm the Wood Apes at Area X on the same day that they would be there. But they won't ever be called there. Those Bigfooters know that they have no apes.

A number of years ago on the original BFF - a person from Vancouver Island was reporting a lot of sasquatch activity. Of course the stories got more and more dramatic with sasquatches peering from behind every tree and purposely pushing trees over the trail so as to trap the hikers.
To call the poster's bluff - I actually called a former partner of mine who was now in charge of the RCMP for the area in question and he readily agreed to assign someone to do the investigation and allocate resources as needed IF the person came in and made the report in person and agreed to make a formal statement.
I posted that info on the BFF and I sent a PM to the person giving the name of my friend and his contact info.
Needless to say - the poster disappeared without further comment.

There are two reasons the RCMP may do this type of investigation:
1) Danger to the public. There may legitimately be a large animal in the area that a person saw and misidentified; but, the animal might be a predator and a danger to the public. Also - in the majority of cases - the sightings are off highways and any large animal wandering around the roadway could cause a collision and is therefore also a danger to the public.

2) Reassure the public that such sightings are taken seriously, investigated, and that there is no cause for alarm. Also, it stops the charlatans from taking advantage of anyone other than the most gullible.
 
Check these out.

There are all kinds of reported sightings: bigfoot, ghosts, werewolves, angels, fairies, demons, mothmen, sea monsters, unicorns, flying witches, mermaids, chupacabras, little green men, rougarou... the list goes on. They have one thing in common: not one shred of objective evidence that could establish they could possibly exist. Not one. These are all things that people see that are not really there.

The biggest mystery to me is how bigfoot witnesses can manage to pretend that science, especially psychology, doesn't exist, but monsters do.
 
The police/sheriff is one possibility for legitimate reporting. The other is fish and game. In my state they have wildlife troopers. At any rate isn't it rich to hear an advocate denigrating calls to pertinent state officials?

Boy howdy they do everything. Here it is grizzly bears. It's monster snakes and alligators in Florida. Venomous snakes elsewhere. Mountain lions. Sharks. Even runaway deer downtown can cause significant property damage. There's canines of all sorts, etc. Dealing with real animal threats to property and humans is ordinary police or fish & game business. It's happening daily all across the country.

Thousands of alleged "encounters" yet not one of them rises to the level of a lowly animal control officer being called out to catch a loose poodle.
 
A number of years ago on the original BFF - a person from Vancouver Island was reporting a lot of sasquatch activity. Of course the stories got more and more dramatic with sasquatches peering from behind every tree and purposely pushing trees over the trail so as to trap the hikers.
To call the poster's bluff - I actually called a former partner of mine who was now in charge of the RCMP for the area in question and he readily agreed to assign someone to do the investigation and allocate resources as needed IF the person came in and made the report in person and agreed to make a formal statement.
I posted that info on the BFF and I sent a PM to the person giving the name of my friend and his contact info.
Needless to say - the poster disappeared without further comment.

There are two reasons the RCMP may do this type of investigation:
1) Danger to the public. There may legitimately be a large animal in the area that a person saw and misidentified; but, the animal might be a predator and a danger to the public. Also - in the majority of cases - the sightings are off highways and any large animal wandering around the roadway could cause a collision and is therefore also a danger to the public.

2) Reassure the public that such sightings are taken seriously, investigated, and that there is no cause for alarm. Also, it stops the charlatans from taking advantage of anyone other than the most gullible.

I used to be a Park Ranger on Vancouver Island. I would routinely investigate all kinds of reports from dangerous animals, to trees down. It was all about liability. If even an anonymous report of something that can harm hikers came in we had to investigate it.
 
This might be a strawman criticism of my position and opinions.

I don't think Bigfootery is always reducible to lying. But liars cannot be put aside as not being fundamental to the birth and perpetuation of Bigfoot belief.

With genuine eyewitness misidentifications I personally doubt that bears are responsible for a significant percentage of errors. The Jacobs Creature represents a bear misidentified as a Bigfoot but that is a single still image and not an eyewitness encounter. We can imagine that a person standing where that camera was would easily see that it is a bear cub walking in front of them.

My opinion is that some people see other people in the wilds (or not so wild areas) and come to believe that they are seeing (or saw) a Bigfoot. This kind of misidentification constitutes more than 90% of all genuine mis-IDs, in my opinion. It also makes more sense because they are seeing an actual bipedal primate but the error is that it's the wrong species.



This may not be a good comparison. You can look at the same fencepost and see what looks like "the Virgin" (figure or face or whatever) represented on it and therefore have evidence that they are not lying. I've seen pictures of Jesus et al represented on various objects and foods. Often it really does look like what they say. But Bigfooters don't offer anything like a fencepost when they give you the remembered story of their Bigfoot encounter.



Did you ever see one?



Rene Dahinden may have done that with the PGF. He may have had good reasons (or knew) that the film was a fake but he promoted it because he had financial stakes and saw that people would pay to see it regardless of its authenticity. But there still is a certain kind of honesty that he had because he never ever claimed to see a Bigfoot and he certainly had the opportunity to lie about that if he had wanted.


No, I just think it is overrepresented and especially when compared to mistakes involving fellow humans for Bigfoot.


I don't think she saw a bear. She may have seen some guy. But anyway she may have outright lied. Her reasoning may have been to get attention and/or because she desperately wanted to leave and needed a working excuse other than "I just don't like it here". She may have seen a bear, knew it was a bear, but then lied and said it was a Bigfoot thing. It's even possible that what she really had to say is nothing like what we have been told.

Parcher,

Thanks for clarifying issues for me. I’ll try to reciprocate by making my points clearer.

Bear

I do not think Bigfoot sightings are to any great percent due to the misidentifications of bears. It does happen, I think, but not to the degree that it could be considered THE explanation for Bigfoot sightings.

Some folks confuse these two different statements. 1. Bears are the most likely candidate for the mistaking of a known animal for Bigfoot. 2. Bears are the primary cause of Bigfoot sightings (misidentifications.) The first statement would be true, the second not, imho.

For a bear to be mistaken for a Bigfoot, I think two conditions would be necessary. First, the sighting is brief, even fleeting. Second, the person who has the sighting is either a Bigfoot believer or aware of Bigfoot lore. Mathew Johnson claims to have seen a Bigfoot at the Oregon Caves National Monument, and the sighting famously changed his life. While hiking with his family, Johnson broke off to relieve himself when he heard a whooping sound and fleetingly saw a large figure moving between two trees. Writer Michael McLeod investigated and found that the Park Service people didn’t think he saw Bigfoot and one Service person volunteered that Johnson may have heard a grouse or fox.

McLeod found that a Bigfoot website was contacted by Johnson. He also found this update on the site: “5 July 2000 --- Oregon Caves, Oregon. Update: Oregon Caves hiker actually encountered a black bear, investigators now say.” McLeod considered if Johnson saw a bear imperfectly, he may have became stressed and then filled in memory blanks with the idea of Bigfoot; even simple perceptions “are a complex interweaving of sensory data, emotions, and cognitive information” McLeod says. Or maybe Johnson knew he saw a bear but “gave himself psychological permission” to tell a story (lie) to the public for purposes of inculcating the idea in public that “the mysteries of nature are alive and well in the forests of the twenty-first century.”

You make the common sense argument that most Bigfoot sightings, if they are at all sincere, are misidentifications of humans, the real bipedal primate. Obviously, accounts such as the famous William Roe story, given that he could not have been mistaken about what he saw, are of a “believe it or not” variety, with the wise opting for “not.” Other sightings, though, such as at least one NAWAC sighting where the eyewitness thought he was seeing another team member down the trail, only to then believe he saw a “wood ape” when the other team member was located elsewhere, are certainly explainable by the idea Bigfoot reporters are really seeing other humans.

I disagree with you about the Ruby Creek sighting, an important story in the Bigfoot canon. You seem to go to lengths to question a bear interpretation. Your possible suggestions: Mrs. Chapman didn’t see a bear; she did see a bear but lied about it; she saw some guy; she just lied about everything; she didn’t lie but her story was misreported later. Anything, apparently, is acceptable, except an account of a bear being mistaken for a sasquatch.

Why is this so? I’ll tender an answer. You are looking at this story too literally. Of coarse, if we accept Green’s account, or Sanderson’s, or even Ms. Chapman’s later revised recounting, there is no way she saw a bear. But we shouldn’t take their jacked up accounts, over ten years after the fact, as literally true. The earliest reporting of this event, in a local newspaper, suggests Ms. Chapman got just a glimpse of some hairy creature standing on two legs and then fled with her children. To deny the possibility she saw a bear, you are ignoring the fact the local authorities believed she had seen a bear, one of her children alerted her to the fact that a large animal was coming down the mountainside (the child said it was a big cow which implies it was four legged), tracks were found all about, a fish barrel was broken into, and a tracing of one track was taken to a university scientist by Green and identified as a bear track.

Mrs. Chapman believed she saw a sasquatch; she said she remembered (essentially bogeyman) stories about sasquatch told to her when she was a girl. With this belief as part of her worldview, it is no stretch at all to assume she saw, briefly, a standing bear, a position a bear might attain if looking for the source of commotion from agitated children, and fled with her children away from the scene. Why is there absolute resistance to this explanation?

Belief

I know my views about the nature of Bigfoot phenomena are not generally accepted here. Here, the idea is that most of the phenomena consists of lies, hoaxes, and lies (Harry, is that you?) This has always puzzled me. While it is true that lying and hoaxing are important parts of the creation and continued perpetration of the Bigfoot myth, like most myths, to reduce it all, or most of it, to knowing dishonesty is a convenient, but insufficient, explanation.

My example of the “religiously devout” seeing the Virgin in a fence post was meant to show how BELIEF is an integral part in what would otherwise be seen as an odd belief. Your reply, again, is looking too literally at the issue. It’s not that you can see the likeness of the Virgin too that’s important. What’s important is that the devout would see something more in the image than you would. You might see the likeness and think it unimportant as just a coincidence or pareidolia. The devout sees the same image but finds it miraculous and inexplicable except for a supernatural explanation.

Hoaxing and lying might juice up the Bigfoot myth, but it is the will to believe that is its underlying cause.

And, to answer your question, no -- I never saw a Bigfoot. They don’t exist. Remember. :)
 
Dr. Jane Goodall said that the idea of bigfoot was romantic to her. She's in the majority with that sentiment. So sure, this romantic notion alone explains some people's beliefs, especially when we are talking about people who have spent no time looking into it. Bigfoot is not a topic they know anything about. They've heard of the idea, and think it's cool. But they don't read on it or join forums.

But once you start looking at bigfoot with any kind of intellectual honesty, it's lying for Jesus from there on out. Lying is a necessary condition for continued belief in the presence of evidence the belief is absurd.

So in the long run lying is a necessary condition to defend belief.

We are in the BFRO expedition moneymaking thread so I thought I would bring it back around to lying in that subject area:

http://www.bfro.net/news/roundup/expeds_2014.asp

I see the last one they did was in Texas (Sabine River area) and the next one coming up is in the Daniel Boone National Forest of Kentucky.

Fine, let's take the upcoming one. Visitorship to the Daniel Boone was estimated in 2003 to be 2.3 million per year, and those millions are crawling over every square inch of it by canoe, hiking, hunting, fishing, etc.

Google Daniel Boone National Visitor Use Monitoring Results 2003 for that. It's a word doc put out by the USDA Region 8. On page 13 they show a table of 26 different activities undertaken by these millions of people.

Bigfoot expedition is not even on the list of known activities as of 2003. But there were over 39,000 remote backpackers alone. Over 600,000 hikers. Over a million people a year specifically going there to watch for animals. But bigfoot is not even on the list of animals people are watching.

I see on their website they have 19 expeditions as I count them for 2014. The same thing is going to be true for all of them. It's so absurd.
 

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