[Moderated]The Holocaust never happened!

who cares about the parallels between 911 & the Holocaust? There are enugh 911 threads here.

back on topic...why are they blocking the information flow? (see my above post)
 
Liszt said:
However, look at things like this...

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion...,0,3594067.story?coll=ny-viewpoints-headlines

Here´s the tagline "D.C. museum getting data from Germany won't allow Internet searches, infuriating survivors who want to trace relatives"

This was from July 10 edition of Newsday.

Why on earth are they stopping this information flow?
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Liszt said:
back on topic...why are they blocking the information flow? (see my above post)
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I don't really understand your question. If you read the article, it makes it very clear why the information won't be as easily available as it could be:

The mammoth archive is ... governed by a multilateral treaty that originally limited access to families tracing loved ones [and] made requests for tracing a years-long exercise in painful frustration.

A new treaty ... transfers a digital copy under embargo, pending full ratification. The documents go to a single repository in each of the countries....

The Holocaust Museum's plan is to restrict access to its own on-site computers. For those who cannot visit, the museum promises it will take requests by phone, e-mail or fax, training a small army of staff helpers to function in a long list of languages, from Russian to Yiddish to Dutch.

The legal dynamics of the Tracing Service files are fundamentally unprecedented.... America, by treaty, will own only its digital copy, and only Congress can legislate the specifics of custody and access to the digital copy.


So:

1. The Holocaust Museum is allowing access to all of the records from its own computers in Washington - a researcher need only go there to get any record desired.

2. The museum is training people to help with phone, fax and e-mail requests.

3. The legal issues regarding ownership and distribution rights regarding the data are unprecedented.

4. The treaty under which the data was delivered to the Holocaust Museum has yet to be ratified and the data is under "embargo."

5. Only Congress can settle the question of access to the records, something it has yet to do.

In what way is the Holocaust Museum "stopping the information flow"? The information used to be available only in Germany. Now, for the first time, it's housed in the countries where most of the survivors actually reside. And they can get it be going to DC and by email, phone and fax. And legal questions about whether the museum is even allowed to give the information out still abound.

I see an increase in information flow, not a decrease and certainly not a stoppage.
 
hmm - good points Loss Leader.

I read that and saw the glass half empty, you read it and saw the glass half (or perhaps more than that) full.

But why then does this system end up "infuriating survivors who want to trace relatives"?
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
The holocaust was a conspiracy.
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And 9/11 was a conspiracy of Islamic Fundamentalists.
The Nazi government conspired to systematically murder Jews and others. They conspired to keep it a secret.
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And with CNN and Fox news filming everything... oh, wait. Nobody released film of the camps until after the Allies opened them. Then there was lots of evidence on film.
The original holocaust deniers were the German people, who could not believe that "their" government could possibly do such a thing, regardless of the evidence.
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And they were shown that evidence.
Go away, this isn't a 9/11 thread.
 
As history continues to prove...German's knew more about the holocaust than many were willing to admit.

The fact that they didn't do much, collectively, to stop it does not mean that they didn't know. It means they approved or were scared or were indifferent, etc. However, troops serving on the Eastern Front, people who worked for the railroads, hundreds of thousands of troops (ss, police, auxilaries, etc.) all knew and many told what they saw...even if in whispers.

Even Hitler was once confronted with it...sometime in 1943, the wife of Baulder Von Sirach (sp?) who was part of the Hitler inner-circle -- asked Hitler directly about what she had seen on a train coming from Beligium or France (i.e. people being transported East in cattle cars). He ignored her and cut her and her husband out of the inner-circle, but she asked (this is reported by Sareny (sp?) in her book on Speer and others).

And, if not only the German's, the Book, Hitler's Pope, suggests that Pius and the Vatican knew a lot about what was going on and shut their eyes because of a percieved threat to themselves were they to raise the issue openly, as well as the fact that Hitler was taking care of the Russians (at least early on). So if the Pope -- confined to a 100 square acres in Rome -- could know, I feel pretty confident that millions of German's had some inkling.

Strikes me, the argument that German's didn't know is a little like saying "Jim Crow" wasn't obvious...everyone saw it and closed their eyes to the greater implications of Jim Crow...but knew about it nonetheless.

A side point...but you can call it a "conspiracy"... that is what the Nuremberg Court charged....but remember, they had a problem. They were the winners. The innovation of Nuremberg was that they had to try and figure out how to try these bastards...they were the government of a soverign country. Goering, et. al., were trying to argue the Court had no jurisdiction because they were acting under German Law and the Court had no power to try them as the government of germany following their own laws. In addition, they had to figure some way to get to mass murder with the Russians participating on the court. The Anglo-American concept of "conspiracy" was a device for getting there, bringing the Russians along and avoiding the larger question of trying people who were acting under their own law. So, it isn't quite, IMO, like 19 guys plotting to bring down 5 planes, or Mafiosos plotting to undermine and dominate a construction business, and, also IMO, "secret" has a very different meaning when it is done by the entire leadership of a country than when plotting to bomb planes in hotel rooms and strip bars.
 
If the Nazi's industrial-scale mass-murder factories had been closed down by bombing, they would have reverted to the less sophisticated method of shooting in the head. This is a regime that, whilst trying to fend off a gigantic amphibious invasion of their occupied territory in France *and* the equally gigantic disaster of Army Group Centre being destroyed, still finds the resources to kill off the Hungarian jews.
I suspect that the Einsatzgruppen would have gone back into action on a major scale. John Erickson, not one given to flowery phrases, aptly describes the activities of the Einsatzgruppen on the Eastern Front as "bestial mass-murder rampages". No way Allied bombing could have prevented that activity.
 
The Ukranians and baltic people were often even more brutal than the germans themselves were, and often formed the majority of camp personel.
My dads father was Polish, and he often said, that the Latvian and Estonian SS men were the worst. You could usually tell were you had the german SS-men, but the Latvians and Estonians were like animals, according to him. Very, very brutal.
Anyways, that's something that's often forgotten: That the German themselves were a minority in the campsystems.
 
BTW: Here's another little holocaust myth, i'd like to clear out of the way. I'm sure you've all heard about how the brave Danes saved their jews by shipping them to Sweden? It's kinda true... EXCEPT that the warning actually came from the German High Commander in Denmark: Dr. Best, and those brave fishermen were not as brave as they were greedy. They charged an arm and a leg for every passenger. They were probably cheering Hitler the rest of '43, since they got pretty rich of the whole deal.
 
In general, Holocaust Denial is not about the Holocaust. Yes, there may be some for whom it's about trying to erase the guilt of the Nazis in mass murder. But I suspect for most it's about Israel.
 
The Holocaust never happened!
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I've been asked many times if the Holocaust was real. I'd always ask the person why the hell they were asking me. "I'm only 30 years old", I'd say; "Why don't you go ask one of the (few remaining) survivors if they think the Holocaust was real?" If they actually had the courage to ask a survivor such an (I believe) ignorant question, I'd caution them to have a plan of egress ready to go.
 
Brainster said:
In general, Holocaust Denial is not about the Holocaust. Yes, there may be some for whom it's about trying to erase the guilt of the Nazis in mass murder. But I suspect for most it's about Israel.
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In general, those that deny the Holocaust are the same people that would be the most supportive if it were attempted today.
 
sgf8 said:
Maybe I'm not reading what you are reading. I don't see why you are attacking him for being a Nazi.

As I have been reading this thread it seems as if he is just telling us what the holocaust deniers are saying. Which is what the OP asked in the first place, how can holocaust deniers continue to believe.

Susan
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Why?, reading comprehension. He is a Nazi.
 
Mainstreammedia said:
One thing that has always bothered me, is why the Allies didnt do more to prevent it. Information about Auschwitz was out as early as 1943-44, thanks to some brave prisoners that escaped from there...
By that time, it wasnt a logistical impossibility to precision bomb the gaschambers, SS-guards quarters, or even just the railroad tracks leading there. This is a jewish CT Ive heard: The allies, the Soviets knew about it, and didnt care. Thats why they didnt lift a finger. Thats why we jews can only trusts ourselves etc.
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The Allies did nothing about bombing the camps because they knew it was propaganda.

An interesting point: The ‘Holocaust’ was invented in the early 1970's. Look at a dictionary or encyclopedia printed before 1970 and you will not find the ‘Holocaust’ mentioned.
 
gmanontario said:
Well I have to weigh in here.

My father was one of the soldiers in the administrative side that processed survivors of the death camps. He saw thousands of corpses, watched them uncover tons of human remains that the oven missed burning and watched people die right after being liberated. The thing that haunted him mostly was the sight of hundreds of childrens bodies stacked up ready for the oven.

He suffered for the rest of his life because of that.

Holocaust deniers are scum pure and simple, btu they should have epublic voices to expose their stupidity and anti-semitism.

There were far more victims that the people in the death camps. Some just died a lot faster than others. Others died piece by piece.
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The ovens were crematoria used to dispose of bodies that died from diseases.
 
MaGZ said:
An interesting point: The ‘Holocaust’ was invented in the early 1970's. Look at a dictionary or encyclopedia printed before 1970 and you will not find the ‘Holocaust’ mentioned.
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Interesting point: 'Oxygen' was invented in 1775. Look in a dictionary before 1775 and you will not find 'Oxygen' mentioned.


Before 1775, people just lay on the ground gasping. Or possibly they had gills. Or maybe they breathed that pink goop from The Abyss.

In any case, I expect MaGZ is experimenting with a lack of Oxygen as he types his posts. I am uncertain of a mechanism that can destroy one's ability to form a coherent thought more completely.
 
Adolh Eichmann admitted that the Holocaust happened. He knew he was headed towards the gallows, so he had no reason to lie.
 
westprog said:
The Japanese, Germans and Italians interned in the US were still alive, for the most part, at the end of the war, as were the British and American soldiers held as prisoners. The Jews weren't. That wasn't an accident.

I don't find it impossible that some Nazis had some idea in the back of their minds about doing something with the Jews that didn't involve killing them. What they did do did involve killing them.
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If America lost WW II to the Japanese and the Japanese Army began to liberate the camps that held the Japanese families on the west coast, you would be able to film the same type of starvation and death that was found in the camps in Europe at the end of the war.
 
MaGZ said:
If America lost WW II to the Japanese and the Japanese Army began to liberate the camps that held the Japanese families on the west coast, you would be able to film the same type of starvation and death that was found in the camps in Europe at the end of the war.
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Your biased and willful ignorance of history is truly disgusting.
 
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