[Moderated]Another engineer criticizes NIST & FEMA

Fire proofing is considered a "friable" building material. That is, you can easily break it loose and crumble it with hand pressure.

Furthermore, one of the key items were the 1" diameter floor truss diagonals. Think about it. a 1" rod with a 1.5" coating of fireproofing on it. from a lateral cross section, the majority of the fireproofing isn't even backed up by steel.

Once those started to buckle, the trusses were toast.
 
His first avowed intent to be a NISTIAN:

NCSTAR 1-5D estimates a value of 1.23 m/s^2 for the average acceleration, and 37.5 x 10^6 Newtons for the average force for WTC 2 during the aircraft impact.

Using Newton's 2nd Law we then have a participating mass of 30.5 x 10 ^6 kg for that part of the building experiencing a dynamic response to the impact.

NCSTAR 1-2 shows that the first translational mode, with a period of ~ 11.5 seconds, and the first torsional mode with a period of ~ 5.2 seconds, were excited.

NCSTAR 1-5A reports that the maximum deflection of the top of WTC 2 (as a result of the aircraft impact) was ~ 0.76 m, and the apparent window spacing varied from 40 inches to ~ 39.8 inches which allows the maximum torsional, (angular), displacement of WTC 2 to be calculated.

From these data it is possible to determine the absorbed elastic energy in a lumped mass model. It is useful to compare this to the maximum elastic strain energy capacity of the structural steel. It appears that the towers could absorb at least 0.5 GJ of elastic strain energy from the aircraft impacts and dissipate it slowly as heat through the visco-elastic dampers... by the way, the damping ratio of the towers was only about 2.5 %.

However this energy sink does not appear to have been included in NIST's floor truss and slab damage calculations, (as described in NCSTAR 1-2), since we discover in NCSTAR 1-6 that NIST could NOT determine acceleration-time histories on structural components from its aircraft impact analysis.

Nevertheless, in the COUNTRY OF THE BLIND, NIST's Report (however wishey-washey) will always be king.

So why worry?
 
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I'd like to see the basis for 2.5% damping.
A steel bar/beam/rod/plate, in and of itself, with no joints, is pretty close to 2.5%. Riveted/bolted structure is closer to 5%.
 
. . .
Nevertheless, in the COUNTRY OF THE BLIND, NIST's Report (however wishey-washey) will always be king.

So why worry?
Having fun burning your strawmen? It's utterly amazing how some content you post can be so interesting and of value; while everything else resembles an old man waving his cane and shouting at the dog to get off his lawn (when the dog is in the neighbor's yard).
 
AW:

Is this the best you can offer!

You really don't like it when I quote the NISTIAN GOSPEL back to you do you?

Let's have some science please....

Rwguinn:

The 2.5 % damping ratio I quote is from the paper by P. Mahmoodi and L. Robertson entitled "Performance of Viscoelastic Dampers in the World Trade Center", ASCE Structures Congress, August 17 - 20 1987, Orlando Fla.

Do you have a better reference?
 
A reminder - stop bickering. Stay civil and polite.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero
 
You know what, in any land right now NIST is king, you know why....there is nothing out there better at present. Let me know when someone finds an investigation that does a better job of explaining the collapse initiation of the WTCs...

TAM:)
 
AW:

Is this the best you can offer!

You really don't like it when I quote the NISTIAN GOSPEL back to you do you?

Let's have some science please....

Quoting the GREENING Gospel back for you Frank, so you can practice what you preach.

TAM:)
 
Nevertheless, in the COUNTRY OF THE BLIND, NIST's Report (however wishey-washey) will always be king.

So why worry?
So when will you begin your experiment that will prove that the shredded pieces of a jumbo jet traveling 400 mph cannot dislodge spray-on fireproofing from a steel truss?
 
AW:

Is this the best you can offer!

You really don't like it when I quote the NISTIAN GOSPEL back to you do you?

Let's have some science please....

Rwguinn:

The 2.5 % damping ratio I quote is from the paper by P. Mahmoodi and L. Robertson entitled "Performance of Viscoelastic Dampers in the World Trade Center", ASCE Structures Congress, August 17 - 20 1987, Orlando Fla.

Do you have a better reference?
Since I don't have ready access to the paper, I can't look it up, and I am away from my references right now. Will get back on that this evening.
However, I have a lot of trouble believing an active damping system would be as low as steel itself.
Are you sure the number quoted is damping, as % of critical? Many times analysts will state "Q" as damping, where Q=1/2z, with z being the ratio of actual damping to critical damping. I run into it every day, and many equations use Q instead of z (Miles' equation for random vibration (X''=((pi/2)*Q*f*ASD(f))^.5) is a typical example I see a lot)
If the value is actually Q, then damping is 20%, which is closer to what I would expect.
 
Max Photon = Apollo20 +

Well, so far not too many nibbles from the NISTIANs on my list of problems with the NIST Report. So here is the list again with a few edits and additions:

1. NIST bases its collapse theory on the loss of thermal insulation while admitting that the state of thermal insulation inside the towers is unknown.
2. NIST prevaricate about the presence of molten metal in the towers.
3. NIST offers no explanation for the sulfiding of steel and fail to mention the occurrence of widespread chlorination of recovered samples.
4. NIST do not consider the possible contribution of corrosion, erosion, wastage and/or embrittlement to the failure of bolts and welds in the truss assemblies.
5. NIST offer contradictory versions of the pre-collapse tipping of the upper sections of the towers and estimate tilt angles that exceed tilts predicted for quoted downward displacements.
6. NIST do not consider the energy dissipated by the aircraft impact-induced torsional vibrations of WTC 2.
7. NIST do not consider the thermal degradation of the visco-elastic damper polymer or even discuss if SFRM was applied to the dampers.
8. NIST's ASTM E-119 tests were carried out on floor truss assemblies made from a different steel welded by a different technique to that used in the towers.
9. NIST carried out no analyses or mechanical tests on any recovered concrete.
10. NIST says it found no evidence for the use of explosives in the destruction of the towers when it knows full well that no analyses for explosive residues were carried out.
11. NIST assumes in one section of its Report that 2/3rds of the KE of the aircraft was converted into motion of WTC 2, but elsewhere assumes, as per T. Wierzbicki, that ALL the impact KE was dissipated by plastic deformation and fracture of the aircraft and the WTC structural steel and concrete.
12. NIST ignore the contribution of the shredded aluminum from the impacting aircraft on the evolution of the fireballs and the development of the fires and did not include aircraft debris in its fire simulations.


13.) NIST fails to explain WTC2's 10 minute metal fire seen burning at Column 301, 2/3 up the Floor 81 window.

14.) NIST struggles to explain the 7 major WTC2 smoke releases, all with timings of 1 minute plus or minus a few seconds.

15.) NIST does not explain the numerous WTC2 "pressure pulses" and "smoke puffs" that zip across the facade reminiscent of a steam pipe organ.

16.) NIST - in a disjointed manner - says that the WTC2's smoke releases, pressure pulses, smoke puffs, fire flare-ups, debris falling, metal flows, and hanging objects seen through open windows changing locations, are correlated, and probably related to a common underlying source, yet the NISTies shrink from an explanation.

17.) NIST ignores the white flashes on the facades (that Max Photon says are from thermite-dusted shock-tube).

18.) NIST does not explain the two grey "wires" seen attached to one of recovered steel member N8's floor truss seats.

19) NIST examined no perimeter panels exposed to fire from WTC2's fire-affected zones on the east and north faces, despite the utterly bizarre descriptions of the highly unusual fire behaviors of WTC2.

20.) NIST does not provide a good explanation for WTC2's magic fire in the 81/NE corner.

21.) NIST never sent Max Photon a fruit basket. Instead, they told him to FAQ off, then referred him here.

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Here's a fun fact for you "NIST didn't answer a question I never asked" folks:

NIST stands for National Institute of Standards and Technology.

A gold star to the first person that can tell us why that's relevant.
 
1. NIST does not address the dancing israelis
2. NIST does not address UFOs
3. NIST does not address Leprachauns.
4. NIST does not give out fruit baskets, as per NWO order 123-D

TAM:)
 
7. NIST do not consider the thermal degradation of the visco-elastic damper polymer or even discuss if SFRM was applied to the dampers.

What would the degradation of the dampers have done? They were nothing more than fancy rubber bands.

sn1.jpg


more photos here: http://www.debunking911.com/fires.htm

Why would they have applied fireproofing to the dampers? I'm sure they were covered with overspray during the original application, but you don't seriously think that the SFRM would have stayed attached, do you?
 
Max Photon understands how time flies

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No...wait...I found the fruit basket.




Now I understand why they say:


Time flies like the wind,

But fruit flies like bananas.


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better check who sent it to you. Given the directive the NWO gave NIST re:fruit baskets, I'd be suspecting disfruito.

TAM;)
 

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