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Moderate hit for creationism.

Nay_Sayer

I say nay!
Nay_Sayer
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[URL="http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/god-is-not-a-magician-pope-says-christians-should-believe-in-evolution-and-big-bang/[/URL]

‘God is not a magician’: Pope says Christians should believe in evolution and Big Bang
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It should be noted as enticing as it may seem.
 
I wonder how many Catholics are googling "how to fire a pope". I never really associated anti-evolutionism with Catholics, but I guess there are some of all stripes.

Yes, a Catholic can be a young Earth creationist in good faith

1. The question of the origin of man’s body from pre- existing and living matter is a legitimate matter of inquiry for natural science. Catholics are free to form their own opinions, but they should do so cautiously; they should not confuse fact with conjecture, and they should respect the Church’s right to define matters touching on Revelation.

2. Catholics must believe, however, that the human soul was created immediately by God. Since the soul is a spiritual substance it is not brought into being through transformation of matter, but directly by God, whence the special uniqueness of each person.

[Richard Dawkins has picked up on this and denounced the Church for it, revealing how little true meeting of minds there could ever between Catholicism and Darwinism.]

3. All men have descended from an individual, Adam, who has transmitted original sin to all mankind. Catholics may not, therefore, believe in “polygenism,” the scientific hypothesis that mankind descended from a group of original humans.
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ETA: Fixed OP's link

God is not a magician’: Pope says Christians should believe in evolution and Big Bang
 
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The only two Catholics I know of who believe in creationism are my mother and that jackass who founded Domino's Pizza. I don't think this will cause a stir in the Holy Mother Church. I went to a Catholic High School and the subject of creationism never came up in Biology. I can see the whacko fringe of fundies finding another reason to hate Catholics over this but they had a long list already.
 
I find this current Pope's recent declaration fascinating. In the 1950s, Pope Pius basically said that the jury was still out on evolution; he didn't oppose it outright but he did ascribe acceptance of it to Communists, and opined that there was not yet enough evidence to sway him. For whatever that's worth. Now the newest Man in the Funny Hat is making very specific, very carefully constructed comments in which he absolutely accepts evolution and the Big Bang as real processes which accurately describe reality. I just find that awesome, and I hope hope hope that his forthright stance on the subject will lead other Christians, of every denomination, to re-think their position on creationism, and to come to a more rational worldview.
 
Vortigern99 said:
I find this current Pope's recent declaration fascinating. In the 1950s, Pope Pius basically said that the jury was still out on evolution; he didn't oppose it outright but he did ascribe acceptance of it to Communists, and opined that there was not yet enough evidence to sway him. For whatever that's worth. Now the newest Man in the Funny Hat is making very specific, very carefully constructed comments in which he absolutely accepts evolution and the Big Bang as real processes which accurately describe reality. I just find that awesome, and I hope hope hope that his forthright stance on the subject will lead other Christians, of every denomination, to re-think their position on creationism, and to come to a more rational worldview.
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I agree. That would be nice.

In the short term, however, it will also lead to certain fundamentalists saying that it proves Pope Francis is the anti-Christ.

Of course, they said the same thing about all the other popes, but this time for sure.
 
Olowkow said:
I wonder how many Catholics are googling "how to fire a pope". I never really associated anti-evolutionism with Catholics, but I guess there are some of all stripes.



ETA: Fixed OP's link

God is not a magician’: Pope says Christians should believe in evolution and Big Bang
Click to expand...

I hate to say it, but I'm kind of with the creationists on this one: I don't understand the people who think both things can be true at the same time. That is, the Bible is true and the scientific theories about the origin and evolution of life on earth are also true. I only differ with the creationists on which one of those mutually exclusive possibilities is more likely to be true.
 
Puppycow said:
I hate to say it, but I'm kind of with the creationists on this one: I don't understand the people who think both things can be true at the same time. That is, the Bible is true and the scientific theories about the origin and evolution of life on earth are also true. I only differ with the creationists on which one of those mutually exclusive possibilities is more likely to be true.
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Why not? "God created the universe with the Big Bang, then time unfolded according to his design, including the evolution of life." That seems far more reasonable and evidential than "God created everything more or less exactly as it is now, and evolution is a lie".

ETA: I mean if one is willing to accept the idea of a paternalistic creator-being, which is rather silly, why not do so within a far more realistic and rational framework which includes scientific principles and accepts scientific theories?
 
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Vortigern99 said:
Why not? "God created the universe with the Big Bang, then time unfolded according to his design, including the evolution of life." That seems far more reasonable and evidential than "God created everything more or less exactly as it is now, and evolution is a lie".
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It does seem more reasonable, but it still doesn't fit the evidence. There's none to suggest that evolution was guided according to some sort of design, quite the reverse.
 
Pixel42 said:
It does seem more reasonable, but it still doesn't fit the evidence. There's none to suggest that evolution was guided according to some sort of design, quite the reverse.
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Exactly. If God is really directing evolution then he's a criminal lunatic. What a brainless wasteful way of doing things. The magic god could create Man in no time at all by making a clay shape and breathing life into it. But this new god takes three thousand eight hundred million years to do the same thing by letting myriads of lesser creatures mindlessly bonk or eat one another, as if they need a god to tell them to do that!
 
I have to wonder how much of all the controversial things the pope has done is nothing more than a PR stunt to get new sheep and to draw attention away from the churches problems.
 
Vortigern99 said:
Why not? "God created the universe with the Big Bang, then time unfolded according to his design, including the evolution of life." That seems far more reasonable and evidential than "God created everything more or less exactly as it is now, and evolution is a lie".
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And it would knock "humans" out of a special place in the Universe. Or maybe "god" just needed to think it over for 13.6 billion years before creating humans by a process that essentially took ~ 4 billion years?
 
Craig B said:
Exactly. If God is really directing evolution then he's a criminal lunatic. What a brainless wasteful way of doing things. The magic god could create Man in no time at all by making a clay shape and breathing life into it. But this new god takes three thousand eight hundred million years to do the same thing by letting myriads of lesser creatures mindlessly bonk or eat one another, as if they need a god to tell them to do that!
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Well God Works In Mysterious Ways and Gods' Way Is Not Mans' Way, who are you to question god, no one was there then so we can't say, the apologetics are endless but in the end they all amount to "Sit Down, Shut Up!".
 
Gawdzilla said:
And it would knock "humans" out of a special place in the Universe. Or maybe "god" just needed to think it over for 13.6 billion years before creating humans by a process that essentially took ~ 4 billion years?
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Most Christians see God as existing in all the temporal points of the universe at the same time. So such things are sort of meaningless from his context.
 
Vortigern99 said:
I find this current Pope's recent declaration fascinating. In the 1950s, Pope Pius basically said that the jury was still out on evolution; he didn't oppose it outright but he did ascribe acceptance of it to Communists, and opined that there was not yet enough evidence to sway him. For whatever that's worth. Now the newest Man in the Funny Hat is making very specific, very carefully constructed comments in which he absolutely accepts evolution and the Big Bang as real processes which accurately describe reality. I just find that awesome, and I hope hope hope that his forthright stance on the subject will lead other Christians, of every denomination, to re-think their position on creationism, and to come to a more rational worldview.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately what the Catholic Church thinks on most things gets dismissed with "No true Scotsman" And as we have seen from time to time in threads on here some Christians go so far as to argue the Catholic Church is an instrument of Satan
 
MG1962 said:
Most Christians see God as existing in all the temporal points of the universe at the same time. So such things are sort of meaningless from his context.
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If god exists in an eternal Now then he is fixed in a system he cannot change and must observe things he cannot do anything about, it would seem he is in a private hell of his own making.

His screams last all eternity.
 
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