Mitt Romney the Creep?

not_so_new said:
We CAN NOT jump to conclusions here. This is a single story from what appears to be one individual so who knows the real truth....

{snip}

All the stuff I hear about the guy just makes me question HIM. Not his policies, not his political party, not his stance on issues.
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Agreed.

not_so_new said:
This kind of stuff, the dog on the car, the Bain "I worked there but I didn't but I did", the lack of tax records, the gay teen haircut incident, the impersonation of a police officer, etc.... this stuff makes me question Romney the man.

This incident may turn out to not be true (I sure hope that is the case) but either way, the fact that these kinds of stories are out there gives me pause. If only 50% of the these incidents are true, hell, if only 25% of them are true, I don't think he is fit to run the country.
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I'd say the emphasized portion is confirmed, supported with evidence, and true so far, respectively. The gay teen haircut has anecdotal evidence and a "I don't recall" denial, which I sum up to a "probably true".

The impersonating a police officer thing, I don't know.

My question is if there is a limit for douchebaggery for the American voter?
 
Upchurch said:
My question is if there is a limit for douchebaggery for the American voter?
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My response is probably along the lines of Ben's above. Based on the replies on this thread (and in general to any candidate's supporters) it no longer matters what character our leaders have, what ideas they bring to the table, what skills they possess, or what they have done good or bad in the past. The only thing that seems to matter is what party they belong to.

This goes to both sides of the isle.

I voted for Bush in his first term in part because of my feelings for Clinton (I regret that decision now). I agreed with Clinton on some issues, disagreed with him on others but I had questions about his character and I didn't want to reward that.

Should policy come before ethics? I don't personally think so but there is an argument to be made that polices are all that really count in the end. That said, I think polices are driven by one's ethical viewpoint so in some ways they go hand in hand.

Either way, one thing I DON'T agree with is choosing to go ALL IN on a candidate based solely on his or her political party overlooking the candidate's record, policy or ethical decisions. Thant kind of "us vs. them" thinking leads to nothing but trouble.... look around the political landscape in America now for an example of this.
 
not_so_new said:
I voted for Bush in his first term in part because of my feelings for Clinton (I regret that decision now). I agreed with Clinton on some issues, disagreed with him on others but I had questions about his character and I didn't want to reward that.
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??????

Which election was this?
 
The Romney campaign is being out-Swift boated by the Obama campaign.

The Democrats have finally learned from Lee Atwater and Karl Rove how to play offense in an election.
 
Alferd_Packer said:
??????

Which election was this?
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BenBurch said:
They tried hard to run against Clinton and not against Gore.
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What Ben said..... Bush / Gore but based on Clinton's record.

I will point out what Ben said "they".... again it's this "Us" vs. "Them" that I feel is causing a great many problems in America today.

I vote for the people that I think will do the best job not for the people who are part a given party. Over the last few election cycles these people all come from the Democratic side (because the GOP has completely gone off the rails) but I never once feel the Dems are above reproach.

How is possible to keep giving excuses for the likes of Romney and Bush over and over again? The twisting and turning their supporters have to go through should be enough to make anyone start questioning their position.... it's unfathomable to me that the supporters of Romney can't see that they are backing a political party not an individual candidate. And when every candidate from that political party requires mental gymnastics for continued support, the political party should come into question as well.
 
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Instead of calling him a creep, let's call him the new Leona Helmsly.

http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.rbml?pageType=politics&catid=57473489&feed_id=3&videofeed=39

(CBS News) Mitt Romney held up the waiters and waitresses serving donors at a fundraising event Monday night as examples of people who aren't doing well under President Obama.

Addressing 300 contributors at a Jackson, Miss., fundraiser who paid $2,500, $10,000 or $50,000 to hear him speak, Romney acknowledged that the people in the room were well-off compared to many Americans. It was the middle class that had been let down by Obama, Romney said, and he pointed to the wait staff serving finger foods as an example.

"It's tough being middle class in America right now," Romney
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If you consider CBS to be politically neutral, based on the comments, Romney is in deep trouble.
 
BenBurch said:
He really believes that wait staff make a middle-class wage? Really?

"Let them eat cake."
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Well, in fairness....

Depending on the establishment, wait staff can make a pretty good living.

In my younger days I managed a few restaurants (I even owned one for a while). These were pizza shops to casual dinning places and the wait staff at the nicer joints were making some pretty good coin.

$175 - $200 a night wasn't unheard of, and with the hourly wage they were probably pulling in $40k a year or better.

If you have never worked in a restaurant you don't know what it's like (which is why I always tip very well when we go out to eat). It is very hard work, NOT an easy way to make a living.... but you can make money at it.

I don't think Mitt is far off the mark here if you make the assumption that "Obama is the problem" (which I don't). If I put myself in that mindset then yes, wait staff tends to be hurt pretty badly by changes in the economy, less disposable income = less eating out at restaurants = less tips.

I think his premise is off base, it takes a lot longer than 4 years to fix the mess we were in AND things are going pretty well right now all things considered but I don't think this quote is way off.

That said, he might take some heat for it because the general opinion held by the average American is that wait staff is below the middle class standard of living, but I doubt this is going to blow up into a big deal.
 
not_so_new said:
Well, in fairness....

Depending on the establishment, wait staff can make a pretty good living.

...
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Oh I have no doubt. My friend Jo who was a stripper and a dominatrix when she was younger made a LOT of money as a bar tender because, well, she's what you would term a "major babe." And diligent wait staff at a good place can make a decent living. (Now she teaches Burlesque classes.)

But usually it is a pretty hand-to-mouth existence.

ETA: I grew up in a food service business, BTW, an old road house in what was then rural Illinois.
 
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BenBurch said:
Oh I have no doubt. My friend Jo who was a stripper and a dominatrix when she was younger made a LOT of money as a bar tender because, well, she's what you would term a "major babe." And diligent wait staff at a good place can make a decent living. (Now she teaches Burlesque classes.)

But usually it is a pretty hand-to-mouth existence.

ETA: I grew up in a food service business, BTW, an old road house in what was then rural Illinois.
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I grew up in the food service business as well... hard work that is.

That said, there is a pretty striking difference between an old road house and working as a server in say an Apple Bees or Chili's for example.

I worked in management at one of these types of places back in the day (20+ years ago)

:jaw-dropp

The managers were pulling down between $40k and $90k (depending on seniority), our GM was making $100k + bonus a year. Servers were doing about $40 or $45k, well the good ones where at least.

Now before anyone rushes out to go work in the industry, it is extremely demanding work. There were very few people working there over the age of 40 and frankly most of the people were in their 20's. Managers were consistently putting in 70 to 80 hour weeks (I actually did a 105 hour week once, I was 25, what did I know).

Anyway, these people earned every penny...... but by my account they were all in the middle class at that point just looking at their income alone.
 
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