Mitt and the White Horse

[Childlike Empress]

I find it a bit strange that Romney's Mormon heritage isn't mentioned here more often. I can understand that in theory, melting pot and all, this shouldn't be an issue (like sexual orientation isn't an issue for European politicians), but in practice Mormonism is ******* out there, and the Romney family aren't "just Mormons", but important players in the cult, close to the top of the hierarchy for generations.

So when we all wonder why Mitt is so willing to tell everybody what they want to hear, and "flip-flopping" on every issue, maybe it is because what he really believes is so far out that it is not possible to run a campaign on it. He's on record denying that he or his father have anything to do with the following and claiming that it means nothing, but for consideration, here are a couple of bits of Joseph Smith's "White Horse Prophecy" as reported in John J. Roberts' diary:

On about the 6th of May, 1843, a Grand Review of the Nauvoo Legion was held in Nauvoo. The Prophet Joseph Smith complimented them for their good discipline and evolutions performed. The weather being hot, he called for a glass of water. [...]

“I want to tell you something of the future. I will speak in a parable like unto John the Revelator. You will go to the Rocky Mountains and you will be a great and mighty people established there, which I will call the White Horse of peace and safety.” [...]

You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed. It will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber. I love the Constitution; it was made by the inspiration of God; and it will be preserved and saved by the efforts of the White Horse, and by the Red Horse who will combine in its defense. [...]

The time will come when the banks of every nation will fall and only two places will be safe where people can deposit their gold and treasure. This place will be the White Horse and England’s vaults. A terrible revolution will take place in the land of America, such as has never been seen before; for the land will be left without a Supreme Government, and every specie of wickedness will be practiced rampantly in the land.[...]

The Turkish Empire of the Crescent will be the first power to be disputed, for freedom must be given for the Gospel to be preached in the Holy Land. The Lord took of the best blood of the nations and planted them on the small islands now called England and Great Britain and gave them power in the nations for a thousand years and their power will continue with them that they may keep the balance of power; and they will keep Russia from sweeping her power over the world. England and France are now bitter enemies but they will be allied together and be united to keep Russia from conquering the world. The two popes, Greek and Catholic, will eventually come together in their decline and be united. [...]

One of the peculiar features in England is the established Red-coat; a uniform making so remarkable a target to shoot at, and yet they have conquered wherever they have gone. [...]

During this time the Great White Horse will have gathered strength, sending out elders to gather the honest in heart from among the Pale Horse, or people of the United States, to stand by the Constitution of the United States as it was given by the inspiration of God. In these days which are yet to come God will set up a Kingdom never to be thrown down, but other Kingdoms to come into it, and those Kingdoms that will not let the Gospel be preached in their lands will be humbled until they will. [...]

There is a land beyond the Rocky Mountains that will be invaded by the heathen Chinese unless great care and protection be given.” Speaking of the heathen nations, he said: “Where there is no law there is no condemnation; this will apply to them. Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke the nations afar off, and you obey it, for the laws go forth from Zion. The last great struggle that Zion will ever have to contend with will be when the whole of America will be made the Zion of God. Those opposing will be called Gog and Magog. The nations of the earth will be led by the Russian Czar and his power will be great, but all opposition will be overcome and this land will be the Zion of our God.

Amen.

I claim fair use on this longer quote as it was published far more than a century ago, and I snipped some parts which don't fit that well into the current situation - but is this what really runs Mitt and why he is so over-the-top pro-British and repeats that Russia is enemy number one?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

but in practice Mormonism is ******* out there

I dunno. I agree with the South Park episode's assessment of Mormonism. The credo is way out there (dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb), but in practice, most Mormons are just nice people with fairly mainstream values.

At any rate, Romney has a public record, and there is absolutely nothing to indicate that he'd let Mormon beliefs influence policy decisions.

JFK gave a great church/state separation speech during his campaign when people feared a Catholic in the White House might take orders from the Vatican. He assured the nation that he would do no such thing, and by and large, we accepted him at his word on it.

ETA: And I never bought into much the idea of differing levels of craziness when it comes to absolutely crazy beliefs. Or that more recent means more crazy. Transubstantion? Puhlease! Predestination? Certainly no better than believing Eden was somewhere in Missouri.

 

[Childlike Empress]

in practice, most Mormons are just nice people

Agreed, but this is true for most if not all groups of people. And again, the Romney's aren't "just Mormons".

 

[SkepticalDrew]

Didn't Romney say in the debates he was a pastor? I guess magical underwear equates to magical thinking.

 

[Ryokan]

As an atheist, I really can't see how the Mormon variety of Christianity is any more 'out there' than the other, more mainstream, variants.

 

[Baylor]

but is this what really runs Mitt and why he is so over-the-top pro-British and repeats that Russia is enemy number one?

Maybe because he's British.

 

[Ziggurat]

I dunno. I agree with the South Park episode's assessment of Mormonism. The credo is way out there (dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb), but in practice, most Mormons are just nice people with fairly mainstream values.

Gary's vindication

At any rate, Romney has a public record, and there is absolutely nothing to indicate that he'd let Mormon beliefs influence policy decisions.

Exactly. These sort of personal issues matter far more for unknown candidates than they do for candidates with a track record to point to. And Romney's track record simply doesn't back up any fears based on his Mormonism.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Didn't Romney say in the debates he was a pastor? I guess magical underwear equates to magical thinking.

We probably need to get RandFan in here to explain that sort of thing to us. I don't think it means he's anything like the equivalent of a Catholic priest.

I don't think Romney is any less "just a Mormon" than JFK was "just a Catholic".

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Just to add a bit of emphasis:

And Romney's track record simply doesn't back up any fears based on his Mormonism.

 

[Meadmaker]

His father, George Romney, was not a religious nutter, or if he was, it didn't influence his politics.

I'm with the people who are inclined to leave his religion out of it.

When it comes right down to it, Judaism is pretty nutty if you actually believe it, but that didn't stop me from voting for Joe Liebermann. Ok, it helps that I married a Jew and call myself one on a pretty regular basis, but I don't relieve believe all the rubbish they teach in the synagogue. I think Mitt is probably the same way.

Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee made their religion a more important part of their campaigns, so I would hold their religion against them, but only because it seems to affect their policy. I wouldn't criticize Santorum for believing in weekly ritualized cannabalism, just for trying to impose those values on others.

 

[gabeygoat]

As an atheist, I really can't see how the Mormon variety of Christianity is any more 'out there' than the other, more mainstream, variants.

absolutely agree.

 

[Childlike Empress]

As an atheist, I really can't see how the Mormon variety of Christianity is any more 'out there' than the other, more mainstream, variants.

Even if there is a specific end-times prophecy in a rather small cult that the candidate's family has been a prominent member in for generations? I think that's at least worth investigating (hence the thread).

 

[Ryokan]

Well, it's not like Romney is a someone unknown. Has his religion affected how he governed Massachusets?

And specific end times prophecies are a dime a dozen in Christianity.

 

[Tricky]

Didn't Romney say in the debates he was a pastor? I guess magical underwear equates to magical thinking.

As I understand, "pastor" in the Mormon church is a rotating position and many of the male members of the church become one at some time or other.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Has his religion affected how he governed Massachusets?

No idea. You?

 

[Ryokan]

No idea. You?

Nope, no idea. But if it had, I assume it would've been used against him already.

 

[The Nimble Pianist]

As I understand, "pastor" in the Mormon church is a rotating position and many of the male members of the church become one at some time or other.

Pretty much. There is no "Pastor" in the LDS Church (despite the LDS stating that they recognize the office in their Articles of Faith, which is the closest to an "LDS Creed" that you can get). Gov. Romney was a Bishop in the LDS Church. LDS Bishops function in a manner quite analogously to the work of many Low-Church Evangelical Protestant "Pastors", which is likely why Gov. Romney chose that word despite it not being his actual title. When people think of a Bishop, they usually think of a Catholic or Orthodox clergyman who runs an entire Diocese with multiple congregations, who isn't involved intimately in the lives of those in the immediate church, and who serves in more of a clerical and teaching capacity. This is most analogous to an LDS Stake President. Most LDS Bishops are relieved of their calling due to another calling to a higher position, though there are exceptions to this. Since all male Mormons hold the LDS priesthood (or at least ideally do), there are no vows.

I pretty much echo the general sentiment of other posters here. I don't think Gov. Romney's Mormonism is cause for much concern. I'm an ex-Mormon and I'll be the first to tell you that the teachings of the LDS Church are insane, but Gov. Romney's words and actions have already shown him to be more of an opportunist rather than a theocrat. Hell, many devout LDS can't stand him as they perceive him as having skirted his Mormonism for the sake of political expediency (my parents included).

 

[Puppycow]

Bishop (Latter Day Saints)^WP

Bishop is the highest priesthood office of the Aaronic priesthood in the Latter Day Saint movement, and is leader of the Aaronic priesthood in a given ward or congregation. It is almost always held by one who already holds the Melchizedek Priesthood office of high priest and who serves as the leader of a local congregation of church members. The Latter Day Saint concept of the office differs significantly from the role of bishops in other Christian denominations, being in some respects more analogous to a pastor or parish priest. Each bishop serves with two counselors, which together form a bishopric.

Aaronic priesthood (Latter Day Saints)^WP

The Aaronic priesthood (/ɛəˈrɒnɪk/ air-RON-ik; also called the Priesthood of Aaron or the Levitical priesthood) is the lesser of the two (or sometimes three) orders of priesthood recognized in the Latter Day Saint movement. The others are the Melchizedek priesthood and the rarely recognized Patriarchal priesthood. Unlike the Melchizedek priesthood, which is modeled after the authority of Jesus and the Apostles, or the Patriarchal priesthood, which is modeled after the authority of Abraham, the Aaronic priesthood is modeled after the priesthood of Aaron the Levite, the first high priest of the Hebrews, and his descendents. The Aaronic priesthood is thought to be a lesser or preparatory priesthood and an "appendage"[1] of the more powerful Melchizedek priesthood. Practically, the leadership of the Aaronic priesthood, such as the Presiding Bishop, are administrative and financial agents of the church.[2] Aaronic priesthood holders ages 12–18 prepare, bless, and administer the sacrament, collect fast offerings, assist in home teaching, and occasionally perform baptisms.

 

[Polaris]

I'm not too concerned about his Mormonism. It's a non-issue from what I've seen.

More important is that he's a homophobic, bullying, bald-face-lying, thieving pile of clothes who'd screw himself to get ahead.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

@ the Empress:

You might just as well as why no one mentions the most recent Republican president - George Bush.