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Mitch McConnell is openly conspiring with Trump on Impeachment

I was appalled to see that snippet on the news this morning. The branches are supposed to be separate but equal, and here McConnell says right out that he is working with the White House. This would be just as wrong if he were a Democrat trying to work out a deal.
 
JoeMorgue said:
An impeachment is an impeachment. It's its own metaphor. Any language we use that isn't specifically tailored to it is going to be imprecise at best.

It's a trail but also sort of a trial but not. It's a political decision but also sort of not. It's a legal thing but also sort of not.

And we've only had 4(ish) of these things in the country's history, Congress has some pretty wide latitude to tailor the exact specifics of the nuts and bolts of the process to each scenario, and they all happened under wildly different social/political environments so I don't think we can really start "Impeachment Trend Data Mining" at this point.
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I fully expect this will be the last attempt at impeachment ever. The rules will be changed to prevent the possibility from arising again.
 
Yeah Bob, spare us the "We can't do anything about Trump because we had a sudden onset case of the morals" argument.

Politicians who play even the cleanest version of politics that's possible doing the whole "Oh noes... I can't do that because of my... *pause for dramatic effect* MORAL DUTY.... *cough*that I've completely ignored multiple times for reasons far less important then this.*cough*" can take the longest walk the can manage off the shortest pier they can find.

I don't buy it when the Democrats/Their Supporters do the whole "Oh we could beat Trump... but that would mean fighting dirty and no we can't do that we're just too pure and innocent" when... they've certainly done it before for less important reasons and I don't buy any version of it from the Republicans or their hangers on either.
 
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slyjoe said:
They take one oath - what oath is that? I'm sure you can tell me.

The interests of their constituents is a political calculation. Most Senators and Representatives don't even know what the interests of their constituents are.
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and I'm describing how one fulfills that oath
 
BobTheCoward said:
and I'm describing how one fulfills that oath
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Well, you failed.

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.”

If the interests of constituents are against the Constitution, these reps are supposed to support the Constitution.
 
slyjoe said:
Well, you failed.

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.”

If the interests of constituents are against the Constitution, these reps are supposed to support the Constitution.
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I agree. In the event that the constituents are trying to get the representative to certify the electoral vote for a person who is 32 years old, they shouldn't do it. But the vast majority of issues are not Constitutional issues. And being a jerk during an impeachment certainly doesn't violate the Constitution.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Yeah Bob, spare us the "We can't do anything about Trump because we had a sudden onset case of the morals" argument.

Politicians who play even the cleanest version of politics that's possible doing the whole "Oh noes... I can't do that because of my... *pause for dramatic effect* MORAL DUTY.... *cough*that I've completely ignored multiple times for reasons far less important then this.*cough*" can take the longest walk the can manage off the shortest pier they can find.

I don't buy it when the Democrats/Their Supporters do the whole "Oh we could beat Trump... but that would mean fighting dirty and no we can't do that we're just too pure and innocent" when... they've certainly done it before for less important reasons and I don't buy any version of it from the Republicans or their hangers on either.
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In my statements about voting one's conscience, that is coming from a position of my dislike of the US Constitution specifically and representative democracy in general.

So my statement is a pox on everyone and not a recommendation.
 
BobTheCoward said:
In my statements about voting one's conscience, that is coming from a position of my dislike of the US Constitution specifically and representative democracy in general.

So my statement is a pox on everyone and not a recommendation.
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Oh so it's nonsense that has nothing to do with what anyone is talking about.
 
theprestige said:
You're predicting a constitutional amendment that takes impeachment off the table?
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No, just the addition of a bunch of murky procedural rules that will make the question never arise. Like how abortion is legal in every state but nearly impossible in many due to additional laws to death-by-a-thousand-cuts it.
 
I can half seriously actually see them try to codify in some manner the whole "You can't impeach a President without evidence, but you aren't allowed to investigate the President to get that evidence without proof he's guilty" thing that's been a core of their defense.
 
Hold on, leeme go through my "things I been telling y'all" file...

Ah! *clears throat*

"The single worst politician for America today isn't Dolt 45, it's Mitch McConnell."

Now lemme just put this away to use next time anyone acts surprised by what he does.
 
Mumbles said:
Hold on, leeme go through my "things I been telling y'all" file...

Ah! *clears throat*

"The single worst politician for America today isn't Dolt 45, it's Mitch McConnell."

Now lemme just put this away to use next time anyone acts surprised by what he does.
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Salvatore Maroni : Look, take it up with the Joker. He killed your woman. He made you... like this.

Harvey Dent: The Joker's just a mad dog. I want whoever let him off the leash
 
JoeMorgue said:
I can half seriously actually see them try to codify in some manner the whole "You can't impeach a President without evidence, but you aren't allowed to investigate the President to get that evidence without proof he's guilty" thing that's been a core of their defense.
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Other than being harmful and practically encouraging crime, what is wrong with that?

There are some impractical elements of our justice system. For example, killing witnesses kinda works. I don't know if the fifth amendment has passed rigorous cost benefit analysis.
 
alfaniner said:
I was appalled to see that snippet on the news this morning. The branches are supposed to be separate but equal, and here McConnell says right out that he is working with the White House. This would be just as wrong if he were a Democrat trying to work out a deal.
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FFS. The branches are separate but equal in authority. In theory. It's a weird-ass legal theory that is hopefully true, but has never been fully explored or tested (hence the controversy over the Executive contesting Legislative subpoenas).

It is *not* a theory proscribing communication and cooperation between the branches.

Under the actual separate-but-equal theory, only the Legislature has the authority to prohibit one of its members from talking to the president. And only the Executive has the authority to decide whether or not to talk to a senator when they ask.
 
Mumbles said:
Hold on, leeme go through my "things I been telling y'all" file...

Ah! *clears throat*

"The single worst politician for America today isn't Dolt 45, it's Mitch McConnell."

Now lemme just put this away to use next time anyone acts surprised by what he does.
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McConnell reminds me of Scrooge. Scrooge doesn't do the things people dislike rich people for. He doesn't buy politicians or live in extravagance. He is a miser.

Why does McConnell do it? Fame? He isn't on TV as much as he could be. Power? He doesn't seem to have that strong of a political agenda. Money? He would make more in the private sector.
 
I have come to the conclusion that Impeachment is a deeply flawed method for a check on power on the President, precisely because it tries to turn a legislative body into a judicial one: this undermines the credibility of such a process.
Impeachment should be up to the Supreme Court, and the threshold should be high.
 
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