Missile??

[NoahFence]

What else can a debunker be expected to say ?

The truth?

A "truther" should really try that sometime. I'll not hold my breath, as the whole lot of you are flat-out liars.

 

[sheeplesnshills]

There can be absolutely no doubt given the information I presented previously that a starstreak type missile could penetrate and damage the columns at the impact level.

I agree it would make a small hole on one column, not columns, and since its insignifient relative to the plane what would be the point. They could simply have loaded the plane up with office desks and computers and the added mass of those alone would have far more effect than your missile and no one be surprised to find bits of them all over ground zero.

This serves as evidence of the deceptive tactics debunkers will use. 6 - 20 mm is a far cry from 76mm.

One person made a silly mistake and no doubt will be back to admit that error. I would have corrected it myself but its was already done by the time I logged on today.

 

[waypastvne]

Mr. Praline: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e
rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the
bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

I can see that you are a member of the Dead Parrot Society. Me too.

 

[bill smith]

Hey Bill thanks for backing me up, I didn't think it was too crazy of a hypothesis!!

As far as I am concerned nothing is off the table in the 9/11 story.

You may have covered this already but some people think that the flashes were 'matches' to make sure that the photogenic fireball would actually ignite and not turn into a damp squib. That would leave the watching live world audience much less impressed than they might have been. Not enough 'shock and awe'.

If so it means that the planes hit with pinpoint accuracy which in turn could mean that the perimeter columns in the impact area had been replaced with something that looked like steel but was not.

 

[Oystein]

I'm not sure there is a reason to address much of anything you say anymore. Your deceptive tactics have been exposed. If you bothered to look up a correct value of 76 mm thick for the lower columns, you would have have known it doesn't apply to all columns. Everything I found clearly states that the thickness decreases as it went up. Why should I continue to discuss things with someone that is obviously deceptive?

Because that someone is a lot smarter than you? Is right in substance, detail, spirit and fact? Understands all the many things that you don't? Knows a lot more than you do?

Do tell me, honestly: Before today's exchange, did you even have the faintest idea how thick those plates were?
Oh, and did you think about the fact that of course you have an inner and an outer web plate to every box column - it's a box after all! So your silly little missile, after it goes into the column, is there enough momentum and energy left to penetrate the back side, too? What about the side flanges that were 14 inches deep - your missile does not even touch these, now does it?

We are discussing UA175 here, which hit the south tower. Plate thickness there was up to 20.6mm, as you found out.
You also found out that the Starstreak can penetrate the 12.7 mm max of a FV432.
Would you care to tell me if plate thickness of the column presumably hit by your silly missile was more or less than that armour of the FV432?
Oops - you don't know, eh?

 

[Sam.I.Am]

I can see that you are a member of the Dead Parrot Society. Me too.

Which is an offshoot from the venerable and wise ancient order of the Knights who say NI.

 

[Oystein]

As far as I am concerned nothing is off the table in the 9/11 story.
...

tmd,
Bill Smith has recently presented as his only theory that the core columns were filled with many tons of thermite that was ignited in fast sequence, and that the possibility of this demolition method was a design requirement for the towers.

Do you think that is a theory that should be on the table?

How about my favourite theory, according to which the towers were demolished by an army of midgets with saws?

 

[Sam.I.Am]

How about my favourite theory, according to which the towers were demolished by an army of midgets with saws?

You can expect a visit from the goon squad of the National Association of Little People soon. I strongly suggest that you put on your shin guards.

 

[I Ratant]

Hey Bill thanks for backing me up, I didn't think it was too crazy of a hypothesis!!

.
That makes one of you.
Your mouse doesn't make it two.

 

[waypastvne]

Ok really you can only make out the N for sure in less I'm missing something. If you go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_by_tail_number#United_States_2 you can see there's more than a few that begin with N.

Please pick out one that you think matches this piece of debris better than N612UA

I'm talking about A/C part serial numbers.

This is the biggest and most unique number on the whole plane. All visible curves and points of the characters corners match perfectly with N612UA.
Even the paint sheen line matches perfectly. The corner of the flag is also visible and exactly where it should be. This piece of debris came from N612UA.

 

[tmd2_1]

Because that someone is a lot smarter than you? Is right in substance, detail, spirit and fact? Understands all the many things that you don't? Knows a lot more than you do?

Do tell me, honestly: Before today's exchange, did you even have the faintest idea how thick those plates were?
Oh, and did you think about the fact that of course you have an inner and an outer web plate to every box column - it's a box after all! So your silly little missile, after it goes into the column, is there enough momentum and energy left to penetrate the back side, too? What about the side flanges that were 14 inches deep - your missile does not even touch these, now does it?

We are discussing UA175 here, which hit the south tower. Plate thickness there was up to 20.6mm, as you found out.
You also found out that the Starstreak can penetrate the 12.7 mm max of a FV432.
Would you care to tell me if plate thickness of the column presumably hit by your silly missile was more or less than that armour of the FV432?
Oops - you don't know, eh?

Did i know how thick it was? I had a general idea yes, and I knew how they got less thick on the way up. You forgot the part about the Bofors 40mm gun. You forgot to low quality of steel in the WTC. As I said I'm not sure there is much of a reason to respond to you. Your deceptive tactics have been exposed, it's not my fault you decided to write what you wrote. Maybe from time to time I can respond to something you write after this, but I see no reason to do it anymore than that.

 

[waypastvne]

Which is an offshoot from the venerable and wise ancient order of the Knights who say NI.

tmd 2-1 must chop down the tallest tree in the forest with, a red herring.

NI.

 

[bill smith]

tmd,
Bill Smith has recently presented as his only theory that the core columns were filled with many tons of thermite that was ignited in fast sequence, and that the possibility of this demolition method was a design requirement for the towers.

Do you think that is a theory that should be on the table?

How about my favourite theory, according to which the towers were demolished by an army of midgets with saws?

If you remember Oystein it is a consistent working theory covering most of the events of 9/11. It works in other words like no other theory I've seen.

 

[Oystein]

Did i know how thick it was? I had a general idea yes, and I knew how they got less thick on the way up.

Now where on the impact floors of the south tower do you find steel that's les than the 12.7mm of the armoured personel vehicle? Do you know?

You forgot the part about the Bofors 40mm gun.

No, I did not:

And so can any small part of a plane that races at 243m/s.
Let's see.
"The new 40 mm design used a larger 40 × 364R round firing a slightly lighter 870g shell at a much higher 1,030 m/s (3,379fps) muzzle velocity."
Such a projectile had a kinetic energy of 0.5 * 0.87kg * (1030m/s)² = 461,491.5J.
The 767 had a KE of 3,424,251,510. That is more than 7,400 times the KE of that of the strongest Bofors 40mm rounds at muzzle. In other words, the Bofors would add 0.01% destructive energy to the plane.
Again, that is 3 orders of magnitude too little to even be significant.

If you want to add 461,491.5J of energy to your plane to penetrate further, you have smarter options:
- Increase velocity of plane imperceptably, from 243.00m/s to 243.02m/s (0.0067%)
- Increase mass of plane by 15.63kg (0.013%), for example by putting another suitcase on board, or 4 gallons more fuel.

You forgot to low quality of steel in the WTC.

No, I did not:

Can you explain what the word "strength" means when applied to structural steel, and how this "strength" affects resistance to penetration by high-speed projectiles?
Can you explain what this "lower" strength steel actually is compared to? Was the WTC built of weak steel, you think?

But there are several things that you forgot to reply to. For example, you never addressed the main point that no matter how you look at Starstreaks, Bofors guns etc, any such device is a peanut compared to an elephant. That the kinetic energy of any missile would be orders of magnitude smaller than even the margin of error with which we can estimate the kinetic energy of the plane per one column.

As I said I'm not sure there is much of a reason to respond to you. Your deceptive tactics have been exposed, it's not my fault you decided to write what you wrote. Maybe from time to time I can respond to something you write after this, but I see no reason to do it anymore than that.

I did not deceive you. I didn't know how thick the plates were around the impact location, I knew that, in general, perimeter column plates were up to 76mm (3 inches) thick, which is true.

I think the reason why you use this cheap excuse to not respond to me is that you feel embarrassed I demolish your silly ideas so thoroughly every time. I think you are starting to get a hunch just how bizarrely wrong your missile theory is.

 

[NoahFence]

but some people think that the flashes were 'matches' to make sure that the photogenic fireball would actually ignite and not turn into a damp squib

Indeed. Here's one of them:

 

[bill smith]

tmd,
Bill Smith has recently presented as his only theory that the core columns were filled with many tons of thermite that was ignited in fast sequence, and that the possibility of this demolition method was a design requirement for the towers.

Do you think that is a theory that should be on the table?

How about my favourite theory, according to which the towers were demolished by an army of midgets with saws?

I guess I'll have to bump that thread in self defence Oystein. When I do Peaders should read my posts on the first page and a half. That will give you the guts of it.

 

[NoahFence]

Which is an offshoot from the venerable and wise ancient order of the Knights who say NI.

You mean the Knights who say....well, the Knights who until recently said "Ni"?

 

[Oystein]

tmd 2-1 must chop down the tallest tree in the forest with, a red herring.

NI.

This is a good example, too: tmd is arguing that maybe a 2-pound axe is not enough to cut down a tree, so just to make sure, let's increase the weight to 2 pounds and 0.003 ounces. Maybe but a small piece of booger on it. Just to make sure.

 

[Oystein]

I guess I'll have to bump that thread in self defence Oystein. When I do Peaders should read my posts on the first page and a half. That will give you the guts of it.

They should make sure that they read the last pages as well. You know, the ones where you admit that you have nothing beyond that silly thermite-in-the-box-columns thingie.

 

[NoahFence]

This is a good example, too: tmd is arguing that maybe a 2-pound axe is not enough to cut down a tree, so just to make sure, let's increase the weight to 2 pounds and 0.003 ounces. Maybe but a small piece of booger on it. Just to make sure.

Unfortunately for me, the mightiest tree in my forest is lying on my house. Stupid hurricane.