Minority Groups "Special Rights"

[cullennz]

...something the rest of us can't do. So although it's not a "right", one can see why people might thing that a minority group has a "special right".

As opposed to not that long ago when the minority didn't have any rights.

Must be a real conundrum

[emoji52]

 

[Skeptic Tank]

One thing comes through very clearly when you look at history or the world today, including many posts in this thread... is the fact that it really sucks to be a minority.

You just can't ever really have any confidence that you'll be treated fairly by the majority.

This is why all groups have the right to spaces where they are the unquestioned, permanent majority. This is really the only sort of environment which is compatible with their safety and psychological health.

No group should be forced into a birth rate competition within their own society just to maintain control of it. No group should be forced to support the children of another group via taxation because invaders from that group managed to sneak in before giving birth.

No group should be demonized for taking steps to preserve or restore its majority status and control over its society.

No group's majority status should be endangered because a tiny handful of elites decided they wanted to flood the labor market to drive down wages, or their lust for "diversity" trumped everyone else's right to harmony and demographic continuity.

No group should have its own government turned into a tool of discrimination against it. Using incentives to hire every other group over them.

Affirmative action is evil and even genocidal. Every job which goes to a nonwhite because of these programs is helping boost that group's birth rate and suppress that of whites. When a white person is passed over, they're not going to be in as good of a position to afford to start a family. This is particularly evil since Whites are about 6% of the species and dropping fast, with sub-replacement birth rates pretty much everywhere we are found. Most concerningly in Europe itself.

Meanwhile, the groups we are diverting white tax dollars to and granting preferences to are exploding globally in numbers. Sub-Saharan Africa is projected to hit 4 billion people by 2100. This will have been achieved entirely by utilizing white agricultural and medical advancements and other forms of white generosity. The resulting billions of Africans whites are helping to create will "migrate" (invade) into white nations.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Who decides if you did your best and what a "fair go" is?

The people responsible for doing that by law. Just as their are health and safety regulations and people assess whether you took proper steps to prevent an accident.

Its really not that difficult unless you are trying to discriminate against people openly of course.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Yeah, that's kind of obvious but that's also very vague. I'm genuinely interested in knowing how they'd manage to find out.

They probably wouldnt. Theyd just check you have processes and procedures in place that seem reasonable. The likelihood is discrimating employers could get away with it quite often if they are clever enough.

Just as employers can probably flout health and safety laws and never get caught.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Like heck you don't get it.

It is about marriage rights. It is about using the bathroom of your choice, regardless of your biological bits.

I'm not particularly right wing, but I kinda get some of these issues. The transgender thing is kinda troubling. I don't quite get it, to be honest. Now, that's fine, because I can understand that I don't quite understand what these folks are going through.

But surely you can also get the fact that some of us are a bit slow getting to the table. I have a few totally decent friends who don't feel comfortable with the transgender thing. They're okay guys, but don't quite get it. Hell, neither do I. It's not my problem, and I'll do what I can to accommodate these folk, but I can't imagine what it's like to be living as they do.

Okay, a little bit rambling, but yeah, I get some of the right wing perspective. They're not bad folk.

Not getting it is fine. I dont think I get it either in a lot of cases. What isnt fine is assuming that your not getting it somehow means that you get to discriminate against them in whatever way, or that somehow people need to wait for others to get it before they get equal treatment.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

...something the rest of us can't do. So although it's not a "right", one can see why people might thing that a minority group has a "special right".

Do you want to do it? If there was a reasonable push for unisex bathrooms then we could surely accommodate it. Although theres no real reason for it is there? Transsexuals have a reason for their demand.

This kind of thing irks me a bit. It ignores that the so called special rights have been granted for a reason. A reason not everyone has. Its like complaining that disabled people get to park closer to the supermarket entrance.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

One thing comes through very clearly when you look at history or the world today, including many posts in this thread... is the fact that it really sucks to be a minority.... You just can't ever really have any confidence that you'll be treated fairly by the majority.... This is why all groups have the right to spaces where they are the unquestioned, permanent majority. This is really the only sort of environment which is compatible with their safety and psychological health.

And once you set up the Bantustans, just how do you limit trade between them so that no one is ever in contact with anyone else? Can't have foreign misfits and locals falling in love and, ugh, mixing, now, can we? So, walled compounds, with physical punishment for miscegenation?

No group should be forced into a birth rate competition within their own society just to maintain control of it. No group should be forced to support the children of another group via taxation because invaders from that group managed to sneak in before giving birth. No group should be demonized for taking steps to preserve or restore its majority status and control over its society.

Interesting declaration in favor of returning all colonial lands conquered to the native peoples. Oh, sorry, by "group" did you mean "whites only?" The two are often interchangeable for, well, racists.

No group's majority status should be endangered because a tiny handful of elites decided they wanted to flood the labor market to drive down wages, or their lust for "diversity" trumped everyone else's right to harmony and demographic continuity.

Strange, no matter how much is offered, seems white boys won't pick cotton. Should some be enslaved to ensure work gets done by the in-group race? Agreed about lust, though, base instincts only are at work any time it's non-whites copulating.

No group should have its own government turned into a tool of discrimination against it. Using incentives to hire every other group over them.... Affirmative action is evil and even genocidal. Every job which goes to a nonwhite because of these programs is helping boost that group's birth rate and suppress that of whites. When a white person is passed over, they're not going to be in as good of a position to afford to start a family. This is particularly evil since Whites are about 6% of the species and dropping fast, with sub-replacement birth rates pretty much everywhere we are found. Most concerningly in Europe itself.

I see; this is about whites. Glad you admit the skew.

Meanwhile, the groups we are diverting white tax dollars to and granting preferences to are exploding globally in numbers. Sub-Saharan Africa is projected to hit 4 billion people by 2100. This will have been achieved entirely by utilizing white agricultural and medical advancements and other forms of white generosity. The resulting billions of Africans whites are helping to create will "migrate" (invade) into white nations.

Free inquiry and the scientific method did arise in the West. And guess what? The universals they describe have no color, and work anywhere. Perhaps this fixation with Africa getting out from under the colonial and Cold War boot is misplaced? There are plenty of users of the scientific method in Asia about to each the lunch of white people who forgot all about science, and prefer myth.

Your post is QED for the ongoing suicidal ethnocentric trend in racist white boy thinking. In a smart world depending on ever-more sophisticated knowledge, dumbing down is not a good strategy.

 

[cullennz]

One thing comes through very clearly when you look at history or the world today, including many posts in this thread... is the fact that it really sucks to be a minority.

You just can't ever really have any confidence that you'll be treated fairly by the majority.

This is why all groups have the right to spaces where they are the unquestioned, permanent majority. This is really the only sort of environment which is compatible with their safety and psychological health.

No group should be forced into a birth rate competition within their own society just to maintain control of it. No group should be forced to support the children of another group via taxation because invaders from that group managed to sneak in before giving birth.

No group should be demonized for taking steps to preserve or restore its majority status and control over its society.

No group's majority status should be endangered because a tiny handful of elites decided they wanted to flood the labor market to drive down wages, or their lust for "diversity" trumped everyone else's right to harmony and demographic continuity.

No group should have its own government turned into a tool of discrimination against it. Using incentives to hire every other group over them.

Affirmative action is evil and even genocidal. Every job which goes to a nonwhite because of these programs is helping boost that group's birth rate and suppress that of whites. When a white person is passed over, they're not going to be in as good of a position to afford to start a family. This is particularly evil since Whites are about 6% of the species and dropping fast, with sub-replacement birth rates pretty much everywhere we are found. Most concerningly in Europe itself.

Meanwhile, the groups we are diverting white tax dollars to and granting preferences to are exploding globally in numbers. Sub-Saharan Africa is projected to hit 4 billion people by 2100. This will have been achieved entirely by utilizing white agricultural and medical advancements and other forms of white generosity. The resulting billions of Africans whites are helping to create will "migrate" (invade) into white nations.

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/cjy2TOS.jpg[/qimg]

Interesting read

It tells me a lot about you

Thanks

 

[Belz...]

...because you keep doing confusing things.

No, because your post was poorly written, but thanks for the personal jab.

But that response was in response to this statement.

Right. That's what we call a dodge. You quoted the part that needed no addressing and didn't answer the actual question I was asking. What do you think a dodge is, exactly?

My response to your question was a request for clarification:

Again: that wasn't an actual question though, was it? It's phrased as a question, I'll give you that. But we both know exactly what's behind it.

 

[Belz...]

As opposed to not that long ago when the minority didn't have any rights.

Nobody said they shouldn't have equal rights (except maybe Skeptic Tank). I'm not sure about the point of your answer.

They probably wouldnt. Theyd just check you have processes and procedures in place that seem reasonable. The likelihood is discrimating employers could get away with it quite often if they are clever enough.

Well, that's disconcerting. On one hand we need to ensure that we fight undue discrimination, and on the other I don't want a solution that involves discrimination.

Do you want to do it? If there was a reasonable push for unisex bathrooms then we could surely accommodate it. Although theres no real reason for it is there? Transsexuals have a reason for their demand.

Yeah but why not? You can't check who's trans anyway, and it would solve some of the "damn! No stalls available!!! ARGH!!" issues we all have to deal with from time to time. Personally I think unisex bathrooms would be a good solution: it allows trans people to go where they want by allowing everyone to go where they want. Win-win.

 

[Belz...]

Affirmative action is evil and even genocidal. Every job which goes to a nonwhite because of these programs is helping boost that group's birth rate and suppress that of whites.

I don't think having (gasp!) 15% blacks in the workforce is going to push white people to extinction.


...



...but if it did, so what?

 

[Skeptic Tank]

I don't think having (gasp!) 15% blacks in the workforce is going to push white people to extinction.


...



...but if it did, so what?

Everyone but white males is eligible for affirmative action, not just blacks.

As for "so what?" - I think it will become increasingly dangerous to be white as we become a smaller minority. I also think the loss of a strand of humanity is inherently tragic.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Nobody said they shouldn't have equal rights (except maybe Skeptic Tank). I'm not sure about the point of your answer.



Well, that's disconcerting. On one hand we need to ensure that we fight undue discrimination, and on the other I don't want a solution that involves discrimination.



Yeah but why not? You can't check who's trans anyway, and it would solve some of the "damn! No stalls available!!! ARGH!!" issues we all have to deal with from time to time. Personally I think unisex bathrooms would be a good solution: it allows trans people to go where they want by allowing everyone to go where they want. Win-win.

Yeah I think so too. Sometimes the right thing to do is change the existing paradigm rather than try to accommodate people within it.

Toilets shouldnt be beyond us. We put men on the moon. White men mind you.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Everyone but white males is eligible for affirmative action, not just blacks.

As for "so what?" - I think it will become increasingly dangerous to be white as we become a smaller minority. I also think the loss of a strand of humanity is inherently tragic.

According to you minorities should have no rights anyway so if white men are a minority we can ignore their pleas for fairness. Careful what you wish for.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

According to you minorities should have no rights anyway so if white men are a minority we can ignore their pleas for fairness. Careful what you wish for.

When did I say minorities should have no rights? I said it sucks to be a minority and I will say now that it sucks for reasons beyond just something so blatant as having fewer rights, when that is the case. It also sucks simply due to feeling that the society you're in doesn't reflect you and that you're out of place, unwelcome, a misfit. If you want an infinite amount of detail about this, merely consult any nonwhite group in the US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the entirety of Europe or the entirety of East Asia or any multiethnic African or Middle Eastern nation...

Forests of paper have gone to detailing how much being a minority sucks.

 

[cullennz]

When did I say minorities should have no rights? I said it sucks to be a minority and I will say now that it sucks for reasons beyond just something so blatant as having fewer rights, when that is the case. It also sucks simply due to feeling that the society you're in doesn't reflect you and that you're out of place, unwelcome, a misfit. If you want an infinite amount of detail about this, merely consult any nonwhite group in the US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the entirety of Europe or the entirety of East Asia or any multiethnic African or Middle Eastern nation...

Forests of paper have gone to detailing how much being a minority sucks.

Please don't bring my country into your prejudices

A it's annoying
B you have no idea

 

[banquetbear]

No, because your post was poorly written, but thanks for the personal jab.

...it wasn't a personal jab. There wasn't anything unclear at all with my original post. You made it unclear when you posted my response to one thing and claimed it was a response to something else. You then confused the issue further because you kept on refusing to acknowledge you had done this.

Right. That's what we call a dodge. You quoted the part that needed no addressing and didn't answer the actual question I was asking. What do you think a dodge is, exactly?

But it did need addressing. Which is why I addressed it. You stated laws do something. I replied that yes, this law does something different to what you stated it did. You still need to address that. That isn't a dodge.

Again: that wasn't an actual question though, was it? It's phrased as a question, I'll give you that. But we both know exactly what's behind it.

No: it was an actual question. I don't know what you are accusing me of.

You reconceptualised the act by deleting a sentence and inserting your own. My question was a genuine question. The answer I give you will be different depending on which version of the act (your version or the actual version) you are refering too.

So are you actually going to address the fact you misrepresented the act? Do you actually understand the differences between how you portrayed it, and what it actually says?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

When did I say minorities should have no rights? I said it sucks to be a minority and I will say now that it sucks for reasons beyond just something so blatant as having fewer rights, when that is the case. It also sucks simply due to feeling that the society you're in doesn't reflect you and that you're out of place, unwelcome, a misfit. If you want an infinite amount of detail about this, merely consult any nonwhite group in the US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the entirety of Europe or the entirety of East Asia or any multiethnic African or Middle Eastern nation...

Forests of paper have gone to detailing how much being a minority sucks.

So as a minority in the US what should be done with you?

 

[Klimax]

Nothing good can come from it? I would bet a high proportion of minorities who have jobs or education because of it would disagree.

Just self-delusion and abuse of "victim status". Yeah, of course they like it when they get benefits of discrimination. Of course anybody benefiting out of some form discrimination will like it

The Government has demanded that Yahoo! have 80% minorities?

By that point I answered there was no trace of "government". I just added a datapoint and lawsuit. Maybe it'll get asserted there....

Like many people you seem to be making the same mistake that AA is hiring minorities instead of white males. All the things you list above are a part of AA. AA is the removal of barriers to employment, starting with availability of education through to the removal of gender and race preferences in hiring. AA doesn't give women and minorities a boost over white males, it puts them on the same level so it's a fair playing field. It seems that there is a belief with a lot of people that woman and minorities are inferior and can't compete on a level field so they claim that AA boosts up these people to make up for the inadequacies that are perceived in them. The reality is that woman and minorities start with minuses against them just because of who they are in certain professions, AA forces those employers to stop giving preferred treatment to white males and treat everyone based on their merits by making sure that they actually have to consider on merit those they would usually reject based on gender or race.

Declared goals and actual approach are two very different things. And That's our contention. By addressing alleged minuses approach is in no way different from previous discriminatorily practices. Just packaged differently. Benefitting different groups, harming another group. And promoting more discrimination.

If it all just prohibited discrimination, there wouldn't be much to complain. Go any further and things are just back in the old ways...

All AA and similar crap address are symptoms of underlying problems. And those problems have nothing to do with race or gender.

No its quite possible that the laws just require businesses to take appropriate steps to ensure theres no discrimination against minorities and that steps are taken to promote the hiring of minorities and when enforced have positive outcomes without forcing companies to hire minorities if they can't find suitable ones.

If it stopped at outlawing discrimination, no t a word from me against. But as soon as it says "promote hiring minorities" it crossed the line. They may package themselves in noble purpose", but instead are promoting just more discrimination and more idiocy. Same thing, different package. No change whatsoever.

And there you see why AA is important while knuckle dragging idiot racists continue to have influence on hiring

Wrong. AA and co is giving people like him more ammunition, more credence. Without BS, they would have nothing. instead, they can abuse logic and AA to promote their own twisted version of universe. It is just battle of twisted ideologies, nothing more. Two sides of same twisted and wrong coin. None better then the other. AA and co is ultimate fuel for racists.

 

[Darat]

Like heck you don't get it.

It is about marriage rights. It is about using the bathroom of your choice, regardless of your biological bits.

I'm not particularly right wing, but I kinda get some of these issues. The transgender thing is kinda troubling. I don't quite get it, to be honest. Now, that's fine, because I can understand that I don't quite understand what these folks are going through.

But surely you can also get the fact that some of us are a bit slow getting to the table. I have a few totally decent friends who don't feel comfortable with the transgender thing. They're okay guys, but don't quite get it. Hell, neither do I. It's not my problem, and I'll do what I can to accommodate these folk, but I can't imagine what it's like to be living as they do.

Okay, a little bit rambling, but yeah, I get some of the right wing perspective. They're not bad folk.

That sounds like someone being honest about themselves but also recognising that their feelings should not dictate to others. I think the "right" the member you were responding to meant was those that believe their feelings should dictate how others are forced to live.