Mind over Matter

[Complexity]

I forgot to subscribe.

Yet another unnecessary post.

Quit posting inanity.

 

[Mirrorglass]

I had an O P at one time where people could check to see if they had free will or freedom of choice.

Some people seemed to get the logic of the test easy enough and some did not. Strangely, those that did not agree with the logic did not take the test at all but even by not doing so, I was able to show them that they had a free will.

It is always hard to tell if they were convinced or not because these people would eventually not bother returning and not admit to the logic of the test.

I have not read this whole thread but wondered if any would like to give it a go.

If so, you would have to recognize the logic and truth of the following statements. If not, then you will likely not take the little and quite brief test. This is not a trick or anything and all is in the open for all to see. I and a good few people agreed that it is a viable test but not all saw it that way.

Well, I would guess that these other people were either imaginary, or about as smart as you are. But who knows; perhaps your test really does work, and you refrained from explaining it not to deceive, but to make it's unveiling more striking when you finally decide to present it. Or maybe your test is a thinly veiled insult based on logical fallacies.

A bit of preamble.
If you do not have free will, you cannot give it up.
If you do have free will you can give it up.
It seems logical to me that you cannot give up what you do not have and you can give up what you do have.

Well, that would be fallacious logic. While it's true one cannot give up what they don't have, it's complete non-sequitur to claim one can give up anything they do have. There's no reason why I couldn't possess things I cannot give up.

The questions for you to answer are.

Do you think you have free will?

That would depend on how the term is defined. Do you care to give it a try?

Do you agree that if you do have free will, you can give it up?

No. I've no reason to accept this non-sequitur.

If you knowingly give it up, would that be a convincing test?

No. It's only possible to 'knowingly give it up' if I already knew I had it. Which makes this 'test' of yours nothing but an exercise in circular logic.

Would you like to be tested?

As I assume you're going to say "Kill yourself; you will not have free will then, which proves you had it before", no. Firstly because I've little interest in dying, and secondly because the entire 'test' is one big circular argument, and would be quite useless.

Even if the 'test' wasn't about killing myself, it would still be circular, of course, which makes it worthless. So no, I don't care to be tested.

I would like to hear you define what you believe 'free will' means, though.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Yet another unnecessary post.

Quit posting inanity.

So you claim you understand what free-will is.

Please explain it to us in your own words.

Don't forget to explain how thoughts are not determined by previous events and how thoughts affect physical reality (if you don't think thoughts are part of physical reality).

I will speak to thoughts and physical reality though here.

Yes I am aware more than most I think, that that thoughts can effect physical reality. having done telepathy twice in my life. I would swear to this reality.

Thought are not determined by direct previous events but are interpreted by what we know or have previously experienced.

Your reply above shows how little you can think but I had already written this up and do not want to waste it on any here, other than yourself, that can think.

I do appreciate that they are really tough questions and beyond your ability. I hope I did not hurt your pea brain.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Well, I would guess that these other people were either imaginary, or about as smart as you are. But who knows; perhaps your test really does work, and you refrained from explaining it not to deceive, but to make it's unveiling more striking when you finally decide to present it. Or maybe your test is a thinly veiled insult based on logical fallacies.



Well, that would be fallacious logic. While it's true one cannot give up what they don't have, it's complete non-sequitur to claim one can give up anything they do have. There's no reason why I couldn't possess things I cannot give up.



That would depend on how the term is defined. Do you care to give it a try?



No. I've no reason to accept this non-sequitur.



No. It's only possible to 'knowingly give it up' if I already knew I had it. Which makes this 'test' of yours nothing but an exercise in circular logic.



As I assume you're going to say "Kill yourself; you will not have free will then, which proves you had it before", no. Firstly because I've little interest in dying, and secondly because the entire 'test' is one big circular argument, and would be quite useless.

Even if the 'test' wasn't about killing myself, it would still be circular, of course, which makes it worthless. So no, I don't care to be tested.

I would like to hear you define what you believe 'free will' means, though.

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

 

[Complexity]

Yes I am aware more than most I think, that that thoughts can effect physical reality. having done telepathy twice in my life. I would swear to this reality.

I really don't care what you would swear - it has no meaning. Nearly all of your posts have reflected delusional thinking, discounting everything that you claim.

Thought are not determined by direct previous events but are interpreted by what we know or have previously experienced.

Wrong.

And 'interpreted by what we know or have previously experienced' is entirely consistent with thoughts being determined by previous events.

Your reply above shows how little you can think but I had already written this up and do not want to waste it on any here, other than yourself, that can think.

Actually, I think rather well. Your posts suggest that you do not.

I do appreciate that they are really tough questions and beyond your ability. I hope I did not hurt your pea brain.

It is an important and deep problem. I have given it a lot of thought. I've explained some of my reasons for thinking that there is no free will in other posts.

Your posts do not suggest that you have either spent much time thinking about free-will or that you have any understanding of it worth communicating.

In other words, you have offered us, yet again, another steaming pile.

Stop it.