Military Draft

egslim said:
And it may not be such a bad idea - from what I hear the military outsources a lot of unschooled work like cleaning and serving of meals to contractors, because its all-volunteer force doesn't like to do it. Draftees could do it instead.
Same for civil service, I'm sure a city like New York has a lot of places that could use cleaning.
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I wish that were what has happened. They have eliminated entire military specialties and hired contractors or purchased services from local commercial; concerns.

Thre were hyndreds of soldiers in the MOS for Power Production Specialist, until somebody got the idiotic idea that it made more sense to buy electricity from an outfit like ENRON.

There used to be a hundreds in the MOS for Water Purification Specialist. Now contractors deliver barely-potable water to our troopsp in Iraq, and a lot of them have suffered serious illness, maybe death from dysentery from it.

Somebody has been screwing our soldiers badly in the name of free enterprise.

Eisenhower would be appalled.
 
Lefty,

Are you aware that the left were the ones who killed the Draft? And a move to reinstate it would end the political careers of anybody who votes for it.

as well as that, many in the US are unfit for service, leading to a bigger drain on funding.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
as well as that, many in the US are unfit for service, leading to a bigger drain on funding.
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Conscription doesn't mean you have to train all 18 year olds. Medical and physical screening is a part of all european systems.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
Lefty,

Are you aware that the left were the ones who killed the Draft? And a move to reinstate it would end the political careers of anybody who votes for it.

<snip>
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I'm not.

Melvin Laird, Nixon's SecDef, developed and implemented the all-volunteer military. The end of registration for the Selective Service System was enacted under Gerald Ford's administration. Neither of whom were well known leftists.

It was reinstated during the Carter administration, five years later. Except for a relatively small (> 2 yr.) window, if you're a U.S. born male more than thirty days past your eighteenth birthday you're supposed to have a draft card. Some foreign nationals are also supposed to register. The SS(S) is alive and well.

How suicidal it would be politically to actually try and call people up for service is a different question, but I have seen political currents change rather rapidly. I am not reassured that it will remain suicidal in perpetuity.
 
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NWO Sentryman said:
again, this was because of various leftists burning their draft cards.
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By my recollection, and I was carrying (although not burning) one of those draft cards at the time, there was rather more to it than that.

I have a premonition that my experiences (and probably anything else) will leave you unpersuaded, so we'll just let the matter drop.
 
Tricky said:
Some bickeroid posts moved to AAH. Please keep it on topic and not about each other.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky
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My new word for the day. Thanks! :)
 
NWO Sentryman said:
Lefty,

Are you aware that the left were the ones who killed the Draft? And a move to reinstate it would end the political careers of anybody who votes for it.
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This is, of course, the reason they are doing it, not out of a sense of fairness. Nothing is fairer than voluntary.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
Are you aware that the left were the ones who killed the Draft?
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The resistance to the draft was more resistance to the militarism that was a part of the war in Vietnam.

And a move to reinstate it would end the political careers of anybody who votes for it.
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A move toward specificly military service would be DOA, but mandatory service in the public interest would be quite another matter. The right would scream rape, but there are ways to make it acceptable to the more rational segments of society.

Our right to bear arms is tied, by the wording of the 2nd Ammendment, to the obligation to uphold the constitution and preserve the public safety.

Any new conscription laws would have to include non-military service, like the German Ersatzdienst.

as well as that, many in the US are unfit for service, leading to a bigger drain on funding.
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Everybody can do something to be a benefit to society, unless they are utterly depraved.
 
leftysergeant said:
The resistance to the draft was more resistance to the militarism that was a part of the war in Vietnam.
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Which entailed the left putting pressure on Nixon to abolish the Draft.

A move toward specificly military service would be DOA, but mandatory service in the public interest would be quite another matter. The right would scream rape, but there are ways to make it acceptable to the more rational segments of society.
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Brainster, Sword Of Truth, Pardalis and Travis would like a word with you on the bolded part. And how would you convince people that reviving the draft in any shape or form is nothing short of a "please kick me and my party out of office for the next few centuries" announcement?

Our right to bear arms is tied, by the wording of the 2nd Ammendment, to the obligation to uphold the constitution and preserve the public safety.
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Which doesnt mandate anything. It just says that the People have the right to own weapons, but that is for another thread.

Any new conscription laws would have to include non-military service, like the German Ersatzdienst.
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And how will you sell it to the public?
 
NWO Sentryman said:
Which doesnt mandate anything. It just says that the People have the right to own weapons, but that is for another thread.
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Do you have any idea why they put that crap about a "well-regulated militia being neccessary" in there?
 
I guess I'm somewhat left of center, but I'm not a peacenik. I don't want the military used for stupid reasons (Iraq), but I want it to be profoundly effective and lethal. To that end, I don't see how a draft is in anyone's interest. I've never served in the military, but it seems to me that a military full of people who are there against their will would have all sorts of horrible problems that an all-volunteer force wouldn't have.

Aside from that, in my opinion conscription is only slightly different from slavery.
 
In my job now I deal with Soldiers that are in Basic Training. No one there had a gun held to their head, physically or metaphorically, but they still volunteered secure in the knowledge that the US is fighting an increasingly violent war in Afghanistan. Not only that, the process of turning a raw civilian into a Soldier involves the sort of abuse that I would not subject to the majority of society. I would not want my wife to go through the kind of stuff I went through for stuff like Basic Training, AIT, EFMB, Spur Ride, SFQC, and even deployment.

Hell, I was 24 when I joined. I knew when I was 18 that I couldn't handle it.

The military is not for everyone. Not now and never was. Not everyone is fit for military service. Should the Military, already straining from 9 solid years of "anything goes" recruitment, continue to drop it's standards so anyone can join? What about folks with criminal records? Do you want the Guardsmen that is in your town for disaster relief to have a checked past? There's a reason for standards. Every NCO and Officer... Well, every NCO knows that.

This is America and I fully believe in silly **** like Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. The Military draft takes a huge thick piss on all three and does nothing to secure any of them.
 
Mike 3,

Do you think this'd really accomplish that goal, esp. with the current culture? Or could it embolden corrupt "leaders" to launch even bigger and grander wars due to the surplus of manpower that would be provided?
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It would embolden corrupt leaders to launch even bigger and grander wars due to the surplus of manpower provided.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
That role is fulfilled by the US Military. It operates on a volunteer basis, which is a result of the Vietnam War.
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Which is also a corruption of the original idea and a move away from democracy.

We have more to fear from a large professional standing army than from a large force of conscripts serving part-time.

No, militarists would not be able to use such a force at will for military adventurism. They would have to justify it or face a lot of popular resistance.

Clausewitz warns that the lack of public will to win dooms a war effort from the outset. That was part of what led to the debacle that was Vietnam. Too many of us realized that we had no dog in that fight.
 
Militarists would love conscription as refusal to serve = insubordination = jail time and permanent blacklist from most jobs for life. An All-volunteer army is of better quality.

And many thought that the US had no dog in that fight which is different from realising something. However, that is for another thread.

Foxholeatheist nailed it on the head about why conscription is a bad thing.

And how is a professional standing army = undemocratic? You cannot just rely on cannon fodder whenever things get bad. To sleep easy at night, you need rough men to stand ready to fight against those that would do you harm. If anything conscription is undemocratic as you are FORCED to serve or face above penalties. A professional force is voluntary and more democratic as people opt to enlist.
 
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