Merged Migraine Test, VFF, and LightinDarkness

[Uncayimmy]

Somehow I missed this page on VFF's site:
http://www.visionfromfeeling.com/migraines.html

She posted an entire PM exchange with Lightindarkness, which was quite revealing. There are some gems.

My main claim of medical perceptions will not be dropped if I fail to heal your migraines. It is better if I have an official kidney detection test and fail that test and falsify that claim that way.

If I fail to heal your migraines, that doesn't prove I cannot heal. However, if I can't detect a missing kidney, that does.

To me it sounds like you are doing what UncaYimmy is doing. When there is the slight chance that some of my woo might have something real to it you all drop out and make excuses.

This is a reference to my offer that we discuss verifying her migraine story after it turned out she was lying about having affidavits. She called me a stalker (a joke, she says), so I refused. She sent me the phone numbers anyway, but I was not allowed to know the victim's name nor speak to his wife, a witness as to his improvement.

I am not an average paranormal claimant.

Told you she thought she was special.

I am meeting with a migraine sufferer in early August to attempt the healing treatment with her. This person is already active in Reiki healing and is interested in the technique that I use.

No word on that yet, huh?

As for the migraine sufferers group she contacted, you might recall that they specifically asked that no treatment providers contact them. VFF did anyway. I contacted the organizer myself and pointed her to the StopVFF site as well as VFF's site. I told her to form her own opinion and that I would answer any questions she might have. She thanked me. As far as I know, Anita is not welcome at the meetings.

LightinDarkness, I would ask you to reconsider your position (not that I think it is unsound). What I respectfully suggest is that you agree to the migraine test under the following conditions:

* You videotape it for posting on YouTube
* You have her do a reading using my checklist View attachment VFFChecklist.pdf where you keep the originals and publish the results.
* You have her do a crushed pill test and publish the results.
* Have her allow you write your own page on her site sharing your experience.

If she won't agree on the last point or renegs, I publicly promise to give you a page on my website that you can edit at your discretion subject only to reasonable legal issues (threats, criminal acts, copyright, etc) and, of course, being about your experience with VFF.

 

[LightinDarkness]

What I find so annoying is how VFF never respects anyone's privacy. She thinks its perfectly fine to talk to people in PRIVATE messages and then post the entire thing without even asking me if that is OK. Her total lack and disregard for other people never ceases to amaze me.

Meanwhile, she gets raving mad when someone does this to her.

Anita, the difference between you and me is that you have chosen to reveal personal details about yourself and plaster them on the web because you want the attention.

VFF is one classless act. How dare you start barraging me with PMs and then post it on your website - and she doesn't even post the whole thing, particularly my posts that make her look bad - without even asking me?

 

[LightinDarkness]

LightinDarkness, I would ask you to reconsider your position (not that I think it is unsound). What I respectfully suggest is that you agree to the migraine test under the following conditions:

* You videotape it for posting on YouTube
* You have her do a reading using my checklist View attachment 15028 where you keep the originals and publish the results.
* You have her do a crushed pill test and publish the results.
* Have her allow you write your own page on her site sharing your experience.

If she won't agree on the last point or renegs, I publicly promise to give you a page on my website that you can edit at your discretion subject only to reasonable legal issues (threats, criminal acts, copyright, etc) and, of course, being about your experience with VFF.

The problem with this is it gives Anita more of the attention that she craves. If she refuses to agree to give up her woo or retreat on her fantastical claims, what would me traveling to her accomplish? You know very well that she would fail to cure my migraines, fail the pill test, and then claim success. Giving me a page on her website is going to result in her editing or censoring me, and while I appreciate your offer your website is already quite comprehensive in debunking Anita's claims.

To me, this is not about debunking Anita's claims because everyone can see that she does not have the supernatural powers she claims. There is no evidence for it and every test she has tried has been a spectacular failure. No reasonable person requires more evidence. What I want to see is - for Anita's own well being - her drop the delusions and go back to being a perfectly normal person. What your proposal does is just provides yet another avenue to the numerous ones you've already created to demonstrate that Anita has no powers. We don't need another one - we already know this - what we need is for Anita to recognize her own delusions and move on.

I am more than happy to have her practice the woo, if, upon her failure and my doctor's proof that I still have migraines, she gives up the woo. That would be an advancement. She refuses to do this because she knows she will fail, and without requiring her to give up the woo she will simply make excuses and move on to some other area of woo.

Finally, Anita's total lack of regard for others makes me not want to reveal my personal identity to her. If she can't even hold a PM conversation without plastering it on her website, who knows what sort of stalking she would engage in if I met her in person? I am not yet convinced that she isn't suffering from a severe mental illness that is getting worse - what if she snaps under the pressure of proving her supernatural powers when again and again the evidence shows she is perfectly normal?

 

[GeeMack]

[...] when again and again the evidence shows she is perfectly normal?

Well she certainly doesn't have any magical x-ray vision powers, but perfectly normal? I beg to differ.

 

[LightinDarkness]

Well she certainly doesn't have any magical x-ray vision powers, but perfectly normal? I beg to differ.

Touche

 

[Uncayimmy]

Thanks for your response, LightinDarkness. I certainly appreciate your position. I was just hoping to have a visual record of her failures since they can be so much more dramatic than words. I believe that if there were YouTube videos she couldn't resist posting them on her site. Sure, she would try to spin it in her favor, but I think it would be so transparent that it would hurt her claims.

It's clear to me that no failure no matter how profound will shake her from her beliefs. I just want to make sure her sphere of influence is as small as possible.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

What I find so annoying is how VFF never respects anyone's privacy. She thinks its perfectly fine to talk to people in PRIVATE messages and then post the entire thing without even asking me if that is OK. Her total lack and disregard for other people never ceases to amaze me.

Meanwhile, she gets raving mad when someone does this to her.

Anita, the difference between you and me is that you have chosen to reveal personal details about yourself and plaster them on the web because you want the attention.

VFF is one classless act. How dare you start barraging me with PMs and then post it on your website - and she doesn't even post the whole thing, particularly my posts that make her look bad - without even asking me?

Dear LightinDarkness, in those several PM's between you and me, that I have subsequently posted on my website at migraines.html, it was you who suggested that we take our conversation into the public Forum. At that time, however, the public thread that discusses my claims was temporarily closed by the Moderators and that is why you and I were corresponding in PM about the migraine test. I also mentioned at least once and probably more than once, in our PM's, that if you were to object against me making our correspondence public, please notify me.

I had no reason to expect you to object to me making our PM's public.

ETA: I am not doing this for attention toward myself. I am bringing attention to some interesting experiences, that some other paranormal claimants also claim to experience. I still feel that I made the right choice by making my experience and investigation public, even if it annoys some of you Skeptics.

Also, I certainly posted every single PM between you and me. I made very sure of that. And I don't think that any of your PM's made me look bad. Please read the PM's again and confirm if any of them were missing.

Certainly, if you were to tell me that you have changed your mind about making our conversation public, I will of course remove the PM's from my website.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

It doesn't work that way Anita .. The expectation is that they are private, unless you are told otherwise ..

Failure to protest is not permission ..

 

[Kariboo]

I have subsequently posted on my website at migraines.html, it was you who suggested that we take our conversation into the public Forum.

Your website is not a public forum

I also mentioned at least once and probably more than once, in our PM's, that if you were to object against me making our correspondence public, please notify me.

I had no reason to expect you to object to me making our PM's public.

PM's are private unless the parties both agree that they are not.

So even if LightinDarkness agreed to publish her/his pm's in a public forum (which (s)he did not), you didn't put it n a public forum but on your own website

 

[Farencue]

Dear LightinDarkness, blah blah dribbledydoodah etc.....
I had no reason to expect you to object to me making our PM's public.[/QUOTE]

Transparency of words
Lack of action
Abrasive and manipulative of personality
Unsound of mind


I urge EVERYBODY on this forum to use the link in the OP and read the "correspondence" that Anita barraged LightinDarkness with.
I mean REALLY read it. I just about threw up doing so.
My fellow skeptics here are way more patient than I am, and I think it beneficial to Anita that I live in Australia.

LightinDarkness, PLEASE do not go anywhere near this crazy, sick, twisted woowoo. It has gone way past the harmless stage now.
Moderators, I realise you may not like this post but I urge you to go to the link and see what you are allowing here on this forum.
if Anita was my child she would be getting a smack across the backside. How dare you harrass LightinDarkness this way?

 

[GeeMack]

Dear LightinDarkness, [...]

I had no reason to expect you to object to me making our PM's public.

Apparently he does object...

What I find so annoying is how VFF never respects anyone's privacy. She thinks its perfectly fine to talk to people in PRIVATE messages and then post the entire thing without even asking me if that is OK. Her total lack and disregard for other people never ceases to amaze me.

Meanwhile, she gets raving mad when someone does this to her.

Anita, the difference between you and me is that you have chosen to reveal personal details about yourself and plaster them on the web because you want the attention.

VFF is one classless act. How dare you start barraging me with PMs and then post it on your website - and she doesn't even post the whole thing, particularly my posts that make her look bad - without even asking me?

If you had any decency, any sense of honesty, you'd take that material off your web site. Oh, but you have demonstrated that you don't have any honesty...

Feel free to apply skepticism and call me a liar and a fraud.

You're a liar and a fraud.

 

[Farencue]

I was perusing Anita's website 24 hours ago and the migraine ******** was not on there.

What a sick, sick mind to start a new post about the mysterious contractor with a missing organ. When she failed to get enough attention from that she spent the rest of her time creating her migraine "study" at LightinDarkness' expense.

So what happened to the mysterious contractor Anita?
*poof* vanished into thin air with the rest of your science.

Revolting!

Do not use alternate spelling to get around the auto-censor.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson

 

[Empress]

Actually, the migraine postings have been on the VFF site for a while. I've been making periodic checks to see if she had updated any information, since she was supposed to see the Reiki-using migraine sufferer early this month.

Assuming that the person actually exists, it appears that either Anita wasn't able to effect any change and doesn't want to admit it, or, despite her wooish tendencies (Reiki) she thought better of letting Anita anywhere near her. At any rate, here it is the 25th of August, and no new information on the latest victim of Anita's imaginings.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Giving me a page on her website is going to result in her editing or censoring me

If I were to agree to let you post material on my website, I would not edit or censor it, within reasonable restrictions for instance there are nice ways to say mean things, and there are mean ways to say mean things.

To me, this is not about debunking Anita's claims because everyone can see that she does not have the supernatural powers she claims. There is no evidence for it and every test she has tried has been a spectacular failure.

I have not had a test of my claim of medical perceptions yet. Only a study.

No reasonable person requires more evidence. What I want to see is - for Anita's own well being - her drop the delusions and go back to being a perfectly normal person. What your proposal does is just provides yet another avenue to the numerous ones you've already created to demonstrate that Anita has no powers. We don't need another one - we already know this - what we need is for Anita to recognize her own delusions and move on.

I detected the missing kidney. I really did. There is no way I can drop my paranormal claim until there has been a test and a conclusion has been reached. I can of course not let you Skeptics conclude on my paranormal claim, and to base your dismissal of the claim on your suspicions, impatience, and on the lack of evidence. It is important that I have the test, and if and when I fail the test and falsify the claim, that will set a valuable example into the woo community and I am most reluctant to miss out on that opportunity.

I am more than happy to have her practice the woo, if, upon her failure and my doctor's proof that I still have migraines, she gives up the woo. That would be an advancement. She refuses to do this because she knows she will fail, and without requiring her to give up the woo she will simply make excuses and move on to some other area of woo.

If I were to attempt to heal your migraines and there would be no improvement in your condition, I would allow it to falsify the claim of healing. I outlined this in our PM's, which you can still find on my website.

Finally, Anita's total lack of regard for others makes me not want to reveal my personal identity to her. If she can't even hold a PM conversation without plastering it on her website, who knows what sort of stalking she would engage in if I met her in person?

Please read the PM's again, where I carefully outlined how I would respect your privacy.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

I was perusing Anita's website 24 hours ago and the migraine bullsh!t was not on there.

What a sick, sick mind to start a new post about the mysterious contractor with a missing organ. When she failed to get enough attention from that she spent the rest of her time creating her migraine "study" at LightinDarkness' expense.

So what happened to the mysterious contractor Anita?
*poof* vanished into thin air with the rest of your science.

Revolting!

Absolutely not true! The migraine page has been there for several weeks now! As for the contractor, my plan was to call him up this weekend.

 

[Audible Click]

Anita, now that you know that LightnDarkness strenuously objects to having his PM's with you posted on your forum, the honorable thing to do would be to take them down immediately.

 

[Farencue]

The migraine study has been there for several weeks?
I missed those big bold letters.

As for your plans Anita, so many plans so little time to actually do anything.
You are sick.

 

[catbasket]

Please read the PM's again, where I carefully outlined how I would respect your privacy.

Then you publish the Private Messages on your website!

Liar. Hypocrite. The evidence is above - therefore this is not a breach of the MA.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

I do not claim that I can heal. Those that I have attempted to heal claim that I have healed them. And so I am open to other opportunities in order to investigate whether the attempted treatment would coincide with improvement in pain again. I am of course ready to falsify the claim.

I have only attempted to heal people three times. Two involved loved ones who were helpless in pain and medicines and conventional options had failed to help them. That is when I had to try something and allowed my "Vision From Feeling", which is when I feel a vibrational landscape around a person only by looking at them but not touching, and based on the detailed images and feeling of tissues and pain I design the two parts of the attempted treatment.

The first part is visualization, in which I work directly in the images that I am perceiving, to remove dark areas that I see in the tissues.

The second part is physical manipulation with my hands at the affected areas. I decide where and how to press or massage based on how I feel will add a balance into what I am perceiving.

I have already discussed these past experiences with attempted healing in this Forum so I don't need to repeat myself.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

LightinDarkness shared on this Forum that he suffers from migraines, and that he lives not too far from me. I thought a Skeptic with migraines would be the perfect candidate to attempt the healing with, since their experience would be more reliable and be less likely to be influenced by their expectations. When I first asked LightinDarkness whether he would be willing to let me attempt the healing with him I contacted him in PM. He then said to me, in PM, that he would rather have this conversation in the public Forum. But at that time, the Moderators had closed the VFF discussion thread in order to remove inappropriate posts from it, so that is why LightinDarkness and me continued our discussion in PM rather than in the public Forum.

LightinDarkness asked me to post the PM's in the public Forum. I then asked him, in PM, to confirm that he allows me to make our PM's public. I asked by saying that if he objects, he should let me know... I asked it in this way, because he had already wanted us to make the PM's public.