Micro Spheres in world trade center dust solved.

[Sizzler]

It appears that you're wearing your tinfoil hat a little too tightly again. You really should do something about that, as the tight fit seems to result in you posting nonsensical fairy tales and childish outbursts on Internet message boards. Again.

Have you no respect? You are very rude. You are on ignore.

 

[LashL]

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

That's actually a cop-out on your part because in this instance, it is not a matter of agreeing to disagree, but rather a matter of you failing to substantiate your claims and a matter of you accepting at face value (and falsely repeating as factual numerous times) unsubstantiated claims made by Jones (and/or various other twoofers) without even bothering to look into the veracity of those claims or the existence of any evidence in support of those claims.

Further, it is a matter of you failing entirely to address additional legitimate points and questions raised in the course of our discussion.

Accordingly, I will take your response as the concession that it actually is (i.e., a concession that you cannot and will not substantiate your claims or address the points raised in any meaningful fashion) despite your attempt to present it as something else.

ps. Read Apollo's post above. It is very sensible.

Do you actually think that any rational person requires your input about reading or interpreting posts on a thread in which any such rational person is actively participating? Here's a hint: the answer is NO.

And here's a piece of unsolicited but sincere advice for you: you should think long and hard before prostrating yourself at someone's (anyone's) feet, even (and especially) when you think - probably erroneously - that he or she might lend some much-needed credibility to your unsupported beliefs and assertions. Such prostrations are likely to result in gross embarrassment (or worse).

 

[Sizzler]

This message is hidden because LashL is on your ignore list.

wooohoooo!!!!

 

[LashL]

Have you no respect?

I have respect for people who deserve my respect. Respect for Apollo20? No.

I used to have some respect for him, until he proved himself to be a very dishonourable person by his actions. You weren't around here then, but you can search the forum to find out the facts, if you are so inclined.

You are very rude.

Replying to someone's nonsensical fairy tales and childish outbursts by categorizing them as nonsensical fairy tales and childish outbursts is "rude"? Oh, my. Who knew?

You are on ignore.

Oh, no! Whatever shall I do?


Oh, and feigned indignation and a concomitant claim of putting someone on ignore for a spurious reason is just as good a way as any to avoid providing evidence in support of your unsubstantiated claims, I guess.

 

[LashL]

wooohoooo!!!!

I note in passing that it is quite amusing to see that your posts pre-ignore and your posts post-ignore are startlingly similar when it comes to (lack of) substance.

 

[chillzero]

Let's not make this thread personal. Keep it on topic please, and address teh posts rather than those who post them.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero

 

[Apollo20]

Sizzler:

I think one of the most interesting aspects of the WTC microspheres is that many exhibit a combination of mainly Fe and Al with relatively low O. Thus these particular microspheres appear to be an iron-aluminum alloy. This is difficult to explain in terms of production from welding or cutting debris.

It is also important to note that the composition of thermite reaction residues depends on the stoichiometry of the reactants. For example, a 1:1 mass ratio of Al and Fe2O3 yields Al2O3 and Al2Fe in a 1:2 ratio; however, a 1:3 mass ratio of Al and Fe2O3 yields Al2O3 and Fe in a 1:1 ratio. Interestingly, if Fe is well in excess as in a 1:4 Al:Fe2O3 starting ratio, no Al2O3 is formed but instead we get FeAl2O4 which is the mineral phase hercynite.

This is why an X-ray diffraction analysis of the microspheres would be useful.

In any case, the microspheres reported by Jones (so far!) appear to be quite low in aluminum, say typically less than 12 at % Al, which is NOT consistent with the compositions noted above.

Finally I should mention that spherical Al2O3 particles are found as inclusions in thermite welds so you would expect to see Al2O3 microspheres in thermite reaction residues. I believe Al2O3 particles are conspicuous by their absence in Jones' samples.

 

[Sizzler]

Sizzler:

I think one of the most interesting aspects of the WTC microspheres is that many exhibit a combination of mainly Fe and Al with relatively low O. Thus these particular microspheres appear to be an iron-aluminum alloy. This is difficult to explain in terms of production from welding or cutting debris.

It is also important to note that the composition of thermite reaction residues depends on the stoichiometry of the reactants. For example, a 1:1 mass ratio of Al and Fe2O3 yields Al2O3 and Al2Fe in a 1:2 ratio; however, a 1:3 mass ratio of Al and Fe2O3 yields Al2O3 and Fe in a 1:1 ratio. Interestingly, if Fe is well in excess as in a 1:4 Al:Fe2O3 starting ratio, no Al2O3 is formed but instead we get FeAl2O4 which is the mineral phase hercynite.

This is why an X-ray diffraction analysis of the microspheres would be useful.

In any case, the microspheres reported by Jones (so far!) appear to be quite low in aluminum, say typically less than 12 at % Al, which is NOT consistent with the compositions noted above.

Finally I should mention that spherical Al2O3 particles are found as inclusions in thermite welds so you would expect to see Al2O3 microspheres in thermite reaction residues. I believe Al2O3 particles are conspicuous by their absence in Jones' samples.

Apollo,

What do you think about this part in his paper,

Figure 5. XEDS spectrum for a rather typical iron-rich spherule found in sample 2. Elemental contents in atomic percent are approximately: O (60 ± 2), Fe (39 ± 2.5), Mn (0.7), Si (0.4)

A rather typical sphere from sample 2 doesn't have any aluminum in it.

Its interesting that you noted an absence of Al2O3 spheres. I wonder if Jones missed those spheres because he used a magnet to extract spheres or if they actually just don't exist. Very interesting.

Also another question for you. Would the sphere compositions be affected by the material the thermite was cutting through? I mean, if the thermite was being used to melt iron, would that cause certain microspheres to have higher iron at. %?

 

[Apollo20]

Sizzler:

The Figure 5 spectrum is what I would expect for welding fume. I say this because of the Mn enrichment relative to Mn in A-36 or A-242 structural steels.

 

[Sizzler]

Sizzler:

The Figure 5 spectrum is what I would expect for welding fume. I say this because of the Mn enrichment relative to Mn in A-36 or A-242 structural steels.

And he characterizes it as being "rather typical".

hym...

 

[Major_Tom]

Hello Apollo20,

Whatever happened to the communication between yourself and Steven Jones?

Was there any communcation on Phys.org? If there was, can anyone provide the link?

Any follow-up by Steven Jones? Has he addressed your concerns?

Where can someone go to read the latest on this subject?


Apollo20, what was your impression of the willingness of Steven Jones to address your concerns?

Did this thread morph into some other thread of which I am not aware? The link to that thread?


If not, why would such an interesting thread and the exchange taking place on such an important topic just stop cold for the last month?


Any info you could provide would be appreciated.

 

[A W Smith]

bump for The Sole Hole

 

[Max Photon]

Possible Sources of Micro Spheres in WTC Dust

This thread could use a name change.

Micro Spheres in world trade center dust solved does not fit.

Crazy Chainsaw, Apollo20, and others have generated a long list of possible sources of iron micro spheres in WTC dust. And the list will keep growing.

Far from being solved, the problem has gotten larger! The larger field of possible sources of iron micro spheres does make Steven Jones' specific claims less convincing, and increases his burden...alot...but that does not mean the problem has been solved.

So a better title might read:

Possible Sources of Micro Spheres in WTC Dust

 

[MIKILLINI]

This thread could use a name change.

Micro Spheres in world trade center dust solved does not fit.

Crazy Chainsaw, Apollo20, and others have generated a long list of possible sources of iron micro spheres in WTC dust. And the list will keep growing.

Far from being solved, the problem has gotten larger! The larger field of possible sources of iron micro spheres does make Steven Jones' specific claims less convincing, and increases his burden...alot...but that does not mean the problem has been solved.

So a better title might read:

Possible Sources of Micro Spheres in WTC Dust

The appropriate image for those clinging to Jones' CD claim is this:

Also an appropriate image for your theory, Max!

 

[A W Smith]

The appropriate image for those clinging to Jones' CD claim is this:

http://www.defisja.com/Show/Reno/Reno - Chasing Tail.jpg

Also an appropriate image for your theory, Max!

I had not read Max Photons sig line untill today.


I laughed and laughed.
I hope he keeps it to show the lurkers how paranoid and delusional some troofers can be.

 

[Max Photon]

Max is being tailed

The appropriate image for those clinging to Jones' CD claim is this:

[qimg]http://www.defisja.com/Show/Reno/Reno%20-%20Chasing%20Tail.jpg[/qimg]

Also an appropriate image for your theory, Max!

Here Uroboros! Here boy!


You know, Kemo Therapy, that is an appropriate image for my theory!

Thanks for the feedback.


MMMMMMMMM
AAAAAAAAAAA
XXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX
AAAAAAAAAAA
MMMMMMMMM

 

[Apollo20]

A very quick and easy way to make your very own microspheres is with a cigarette lighter! It works best if you hold the lighter more or less horizontally an inch or so above a sheet of white paper and strike the lighter several times. (Try not to set the paper on fire!) If you look closely you will see black particles on the sheet of paper which viewed with 30x magnification or more will reveal some nice metallic-looking microspheres among the debris, especially with good illumination.....

 

[Par]

The NISTians and the CreatioNISTs

Crazy Chainsaw, Apollo20, and others have generated a long list of possible sources of iron micro spheres in WTC dust. And the list will keep growing.

Far from being solved, the problem has gotten larger!

Interestingly, creationists frequently use this model of argument: They will claim that the fossil record is full of gaps and thus challenge evolutionists to adduce evidence of a transition organism between, say, fish and amphibians. When this challenge is fulfilled and such an organism is cited, the creationists merely claim that there are now twice as many gaps in the fossil record (between fish and our transitional organism, and between our transitional organism and amphibians) and evolution is, consequently, doubly uncertain.

• Fish [GAP] Amphibians
• Fish [GAP] Transitional Organism [GAP] Amphibians

Similarly, Max is claiming that the more innocuous explanations there are for the phenomenon of the spherules, the more suspicious that phenomenon becomes.

 

[Max Photon]

Par bogies

Interestingly, creationists frequently use this model of argument: They will claim that the fossil record is full of gaps and thus challenge evolutionists to adduce evidence of a transition organism between, say, fish and amphibians. When this challenge is fulfilled and such an organism is cited, the creationists merely claim that there are now twice as many gaps in the fossil record (between fish and our transitional organism, and between our transitional organism and amphibians) and evolution is, consequently, doubly uncertain.

• Fish [GAP] Amphibians
• Fish [GAP] Transitional Organism [GAP] Amphibians

Similarly, Max is claiming that the more innocuous explanations there are for the phenomenon of the spherules, the more suspicious that phenomenon becomes.

Par,

I think you're projecting your suspicion onto me. Where did I say the more explanations for the phenomenon of the micro spheres, the more suspicious it becomes?

My incredibly simple point was that if anyone - like Jones - wants to ascribe the WTC microspheres to one source - such as thermite - he or she has an ever-growing list of other possible sources to eliminate first. In other words, be problem has gotten larger.

What's your need to be lost?

 

[ref]

Max sometimes actually has some pretty clever and funny post titles, don't you think?