• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Michael Vick: persecuted by PETA?

pgwenthold said:
And you are welcome to your view. Heck, I might even agree with it.

Then again, I feel the same way about Brett Favre. I don't want to see him in a uniform again, either.

Now what's the difference? Not much, in principle.
Click to expand...

:confused: Am I missing something? What has Favre done that can compare to Vick's years of involvement in dogfighting?
 
Cleon said:
I wouldn't call Vick "oppressed" in any reasonable sense of the word. He's lost a lot of money - but he ain't exactly living in poverty. If anything, PETA's just being their usual opportunistic selves; they're using Vick to get their name in the spotlight, but really don't care much beyond that.

I really have no opinion one way or the other about whether they let him back in the NFL. Really, that's only half the equation anyway; who's going to sign him? The Falcons already fired him, and any team that hires him is going to have a PR nightmare. The only way he stands a snowball's chance in hell of getting signed is if he finds a team so desperate for decent players that they won't even care about the backlash.

...So I guess he's off to Cincinnati, then.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the Vick was never all that great a player, and he is rapidly apporachign the age where NFL skills start to deteorirate.
I bet he ends up in the CFL or one of the "pirate" football leagues.
 
Drudgewire said:
Goodell is one of those guys who can't sleep at night without reminding himself how tough on evildoers he is. I really can't stand the guy.
Click to expand...

What the NFL needs is the type of feckless commissioner that rubber stamps player anabolic roid usage to invalidate the game's stats. Maybe they could pay that guy $18 million a year instead of $11 million?
 
Segnosaur said:
Ummm... I think when someone claims a player is 'mediocre' (or even poor), I think the assumption made is that they are comparing them to other players within the same league or at the same level. (The fact that Mickle Vick may be better than your average high-school football player isn't exactly that relevant here.)
Click to expand...

But it IS relevant to the question of replacement value. Drkitten claims there are a whole pile of people nearly as good as Vick that can replace him. But your comment leads to that - no there isn't. There are only 32 people who are starters on NFL football teams, but they already have jobs. That means that you have to go to backups. How many backup quarterbacks in the NFL are (were?) as good as Vick? Despite the claims about "mediocrity," recall Vick is also a two-time pro-bowl selection, so clearly his peers felt him to be far more than "mediocre." But be that as it may, call him mediocre (average starting NFL qb); how many players are there in the NFL that are an average QB or better? Are there really a lot of backup qbs in the NFL that would be "average" if they were put on the field? That was effectively the claim I was responding to.
 
pgwenthold said:
But it IS relevant to the question of replacement value. Drkitten claims there are a whole pile of people nearly as good as Vick that can replace him. But your comment leads to that - no there isn't. There are only 32 people who are starters on NFL football teams, but they already have jobs. That means that you have to go to backups. How many backup quarterbacks in the NFL are (were?) as good as Vick?
Click to expand...

Enough of them that the Falcons had no trouble finding one once they started looking during the 2008 season (after being blindsided in 2007).
 
Cleon said:
:confused: Am I missing something? What has Favre done that can compare to Vick's years of involvement in dogfighting?
Click to expand...

Who said they were comparable? All I ever suggested is that they both did enough to make me never want to see them on the field again.
 
drkitten said:
Enough of them that the Falcons had no trouble finding one once they started looking during the 2008 season (after being blindsided in 2007).
Click to expand...

Yeah, they had to spend a top draft pick to do it, too. What could have they gotten with that draft pick had they not had to spend it on a QB?
 
pgwenthold said:
Who said they were comparable?
Click to expand...

Uh, you did:

pgwenthold said:
Now what's the difference? Not much, in principle.
Click to expand...

I think you might have sent a different message than you intended to.

All I ever suggested is that they both did enough to make me never want to see them on the field again.
Click to expand...

From the context, you appeared to suggest that Favre had done something equally heinous to Vick.
 
pgwenthold said:
Says who?

His peers put him in the pro-bowl - twice. Apparently, they disagree with your assessment.
Click to expand...

His former teammates also managed to duplicate the 8-5 record without him.

BTW: He is a 3X Pro Bowler. Does that trump being a felon?
 
Cleon said:
Uh, you did:



I think you might have sent a different message than you intended to.



From the context, you appeared to suggest that Favre had done something equally heinous to Vick.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about the players. I was talking about ME.

"_I_ don't want to see Vick wear a jersey"

"_I_ don't want to see Favre wear a jersey"

Those opinions are the same, but do not require their actions to be comparable in any way, except to the point where they have both exceeded the "want to see them wear a jersey" threshold.
 
Last edited:
pgwenthold said:
It's not, and no one is saying it is.

The NFL's question is, should a team be allowed to sign him?

(the NFL doesn't control players, it controls teams)
Click to expand...

But the loss of endorsement contracts is being cited as a punishment that he is getting from PETA.

Personaly I think he would be a great spokesman for any rope or electrical company.
 
pgwenthold said:
Yeah, they had to spend a top draft pick to do it, too. What could have they gotten with that draft pick had they not had to spend it on a QB?
Click to expand...

Yea they needed to do a better job making sure that none of their players were committing felonies on a regular basis.
 
pgwenthold said:
Yeah, they had to spend a top draft pick to do it, too.
Click to expand...

.... which means that there are people out who can replace Vick.

Enough that the Falcons had no trouble finding one -- and, in fact, they don't even want Vick himself back. This hardly sounds like a unique and irreplaceable talent, when in fact he's self-evidently been replaced.
 
pgwenthold said:
Nonsense.

He was, when he was playing, one of the top 30 quarterbacks in the entire world (to be generous - you, in fact, are admitting that he is one of the top 20). He is "mediocre" only by NFL standards, but that is when compared to the elite of the elite. However, that does not change the fact that he is a better quarterback than 99% of people playing football.

The question is, would whoever replaces him be as good as he is? And what is the value of the difference between them?
Click to expand...

Mediocre= Not very high quality; average or second-rate. And his ranking within the NFL is the only thing that matters; the 65th best quarterback in the world is not going to be starting in the NFL barring lots of injuries.

Yes, he's better than I would be out there by a very wide margin. He's probably better than a few starters in the league. But remember, he was not getting paid like he was an average or second-rate quarterback; he was one of the highest paid players in the NFL. Maybe he doesn't expect the big bucks this time around because of the dog-fighting situation. That I don't know.

As for the guys who did replace him in 2007 and 2008, the latter was Matt Ryan, who, in his first full season, compiled a QB rating of 87.7, well above Vick's rating in his best season. In 2007, Joey Harrington started most of the games for Atlanta; his QB rating was 77.2, a shade higher than Vick's 2006 performance of 75.7. So Atlanta certainly hasn't had any problem replacing him. Indeed, in Ryan they look to have a pretty good candidate for a long-term solution.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom