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Michael Brown Shooting

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davefoc said:
It could be fun to just propose it and watch the heads of NRA leaders explode over the idea. Notice how enthused they are over the idea of trigger locks that prevent use of the weapon than by other than the owner/authorized user.
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The NRA is the largest supplier of free firearm locks in the country. Chances are you can go to your county sheriff and get a cable lock gratis and chances are it was supplied to them by the National Rifle Association.
 
Newtons Bit said:
Or the police could just start wearing lapel cameras universally. I bet Wilson sure wishes he had been wearing one of those now.
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It may be that the citizenry will continue to film things on their own, even if the police to not. Google glass anyone?
 
BenBurch said:
I am thinking we need one more camera. And this one ought to be on 100% of all guns allowed to police OR civilians; A gun camera. And tampering with it is 30 years, no parole.
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Sure, and everyone can walk around with the guns pointed at their faces so the government will know exactly who is carrying them. Perfect. :)
 
Newtons Bit said:
Or the police could just start wearing lapel cameras universally. I bet Wilson sure wishes he had been wearing one of those now.
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I doubt it. This justification for this shooting was probably equivocal. Juries that tend to side with police already, especially when the victim has committed a serious criminal act are going to imagine that things might have gone in a way that puts the policeman in the best light and not convict him.

I think that it is probable that Wilson used bad judgment and probably, at least technically, was guilty of some kind of illegal use of force. If either one of those things is true, video would not be Wilson's friend, but even with video there's still a good chance that Wilson would get off. It is damn hard to decide that a person authorized to kill somebody at one instant is suddenly supposed to stop when the conditions change in the next instant and the conditions no longer exist that make the killing legal.

Of course, if one holds the view that this incident was caused by Wilson unnecessarily hassling people which led to a struggle that was initiated by Wilson and then eventually a shooting that occurred while Wilson was in such a rage that he couldn't stop himself from killing Brown, Then obviously video would be really bad for Wilson.

And conversely, if you imagine a physical confrontation initiated by Brown that Wilson tried to defend himself from, followed by a valiant pursuit of Brown by Wilson with Wilson being forced to shoot only after Brown turns and charges him and finally Wilson shooting Brown in the head as Brown continued to charge Wilson despite being hit numerous times with gun fire video would be a really good thing for Wilson.
 
Skeptical Greg said:
Which is not inconsistent with Brown falling forward ( for whatever reason ), and still being several feet from the ground when a shot hit the top of his head..

It would be difficult to speculate how high from the ground Wilson was holding his gun..
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Guns have to be lined up with the eye to aim them. Wilson eye was probably about 5'6" high, being as cops are usually tall. Then subtract a bit for a crouch, or not much crouch if he was walking towards Brown. Gun held forward too, and the aiming at a downward angle to center of mass.

But the trajectory of the bullet in degrees from horizontal is minor (0 to 4% negative) compared to the possible greater angle of tilt of the head, about 120 degrees?

Brown had to be either charging or falling to get hit in the top of the head. Either act would look the same to Wilson. But there is no reason for Brown to be falling, none of the previous shots would have made him fall. No,wait, the eyebrow shot probably would have cuncussed his brain. But it too had to happen while falling/charging.

I don't think we know, or can know, the order of the two head shots. Either would have knocked him out, made him fall, though one would have been instant death. But the key is he had to be either falling or charging before they were fired.
 
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TheL8Elvis said:
Or, Wilson had 13 shots.

The first 3 were fired at the car and as Brown ran away. (ETA: to clarify at the car - as in from inside the car, then outside maybe)

Then Wilson chased Brown, Brown Stopped, turned around.
Taunted Wilson and came towards him.
Wilson fired 6 shots.
Brown stopped started to raise his hands, then stumbled forward, putting his arms down, causing wilson to fire the last 4 rounds in his weapon as brown moved towards him.

That scenario seems to square with the witness accounts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown#James_McKnight

It also accounts for a large time gap where everybody went to go get a phone but not record anything.

I am certain I must have missed some things, so please point them out.
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So I have a seen a few nods of agreement with my scenario, but no one has pointed out why it is unworkable....
 
rwguinn said:
5, maybe 6 holes in his front with 4 shots springs to mind immediately...
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All 10 shots on the recording were fired at brown while brown faced wilson in my scenario.

I wasn't clear and/or you are not following my scenario...
 
TheL8Elvis said:
So I have a seen a few nods of agreement with my scenario, but no one has pointed out why it is unworkable....
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It is certainly possible. But a lot of things are possible... personally, I'm still waiting on more details.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
All 10 shots on the recording were fired at brown while brown faced wilson in my scenario.

I wasn't clear and/or you are not following my scenario...
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sorry. Misread the scenario.
Possible. But like everything else, not enough evidence known to us to judge. Like everything else, it's just surmise.
 
Giz said:
It is certainly possible. But a lot of things are possible... personally, I'm still waiting on more details.
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As am I ...

I am just proposing a scenario based on the few things we know, the witness interviews, and the recording.

Mostly as an alternative to the few posts out there that claim to have "demolished" the story by "josie", and because the witness interviews don't jibe very well with the other scenarios proposed, due to time, distance, etc.

ETA: I just wanted to know if I missed some obvious fact or piece of evidence or witness statement that invalidates my scenario
 
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casebro said:
Guns have to be lined up with the eye to aim them. Wilson eye was probably about 5'6" high, being as cops are usually tall. Then subtract a bit for a crouch, or not much crouch if he was walking towards Brown. Gun held forward too, and the aiming at a downward angle to center of mass.

But the trajectory of the bullet in degrees from horizontal is minor (0 to 4% negative) compared to the possible greater angle of tilt of the head, about 120 degrees?

Brown had to be either charging or falling to get hit in the top of the head. Either act would look the same to Wilson. But there is no reason for Brown to be falling, none of the previous shots would have made him fall. No,wait, the eyebrow shot probably would have cuncussed his brain. But it too had to happen while falling/charging.

I don't think we know, or can know, the order of the two head shots. Either would have knocked him out, made him fall, though one would have been instant death. But the key is he had to be either falling or charging before they were fired.
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Why would he be charging?
 
casebro said:
But there is no reason for Brown to be falling, none of the previous shots would have made him fall.
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What're you basing this on?

He could've fallen due to shock from getting hit, losing his balance because of the shock of getting hit + indecisiveness about charging or not (might've been a split second shift from rushing the cop seeming like a viable strategy to seeming like a very bad idea once billets began to hit him)

I just don't see how anyone can state so confidently that someone might not pitch forward in a way that puts their head down for any number of reasons in a hectic situation like that.

Frank Newgent said:
Why would he be charging?
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Didn't want to go to jail or die, and perceived some moment of hesitation in Wilson he impulsively decided in a flash of a moment to try to exploit with an unexpected last ditch effort to do what he'd tried to before? Namely, overpower the cop and avoid consequences. If he had tried attacking and running and both had gone poorly, and both are illegal and foolish and dangerous... why doubt him doing one last illegal, foolish, doomed effort in that pause before the final volley? If Wilson had closed the gap to 6 or 7 feet as someone posted, that might tempt Brown to think he could get to Wilson before he could react with more shots.

May even have tried to fool Wilson in that 3 second gap with a fake surrender to get Wilson's guard down. And if so, now that would shed a lot of light on why witnesses thought they saw an honest surrender followed by execution. Wilson would've been uniquely positioned and trained to see the action which put a lie to any fake surrender.
 
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If Wilson fired a few at the car, (there is multiple brass there) then the first volley of 6 that show on the tape, he may have had to reload. Brown, who was surrendering with hands up, see's his chance to get him with a football tackle. Not fast enough, the rest is eulogy.

That first shot int he car was not heard on the tape because the window was plugged by a 300 pound cork.
 
casebro said:
Wilson [sic] eye was probably about 5'6" high, being as cops are usually tall.
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No, they aren't, actually.

http://www.realpolice.net/forums/archive/t-314.html

lprocter
11-03-01, 10:30 AM
I'm about 5'8, but I've worked with shorter cops, and with taller cops. I don't think height has a direct influence on your chances of being hired. Ever since they got rid of height recquirements, any one can be a police officer regardless of height. However, they still need to meet the other rec's, which have nothig to do with height.
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DepDog
11-03-01, 11:33 PM
Well I am 6'8" tall and weigh about 230lbs. I am the tallest at our department. We have a couple of male Deputies that are around 5'6". Its funny when I was both of their FTO's when we worked together, we got a lot of comments about the height difference.

As long as you pass the physical agility test and all the other tests, there is no requirements on height, weight etc...
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A quick search has not revealed anything that would imply that cops differ from the general population in terms of height. Was your assumption perhaps based on observational bias?
 
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