Michael Brown Shooting

[newyorkguy]

I would not. My reaction to getting hit by an officer was to drop and take it. I was even smart enough to not try running off.
Someone crazy enough, or stupid enough, to attack a policeman is a seriously dangerous person. Edit. I actually had a beating coming, and was glad in the end that I was not arrested instead, spending the night in a Detroit lockup was way scarier to me than any cop.

You were beaten by a cop and you thought it was justified? May I ask what you did?

 

[Distracted1]

You were beaten by a cop and you thought it was justified? May I ask what you did?

Caught with friends throwing/smashing our empty beer bottles behind a church in Southwest Detroit. That was part of our "mischief" that night anyway. We were generally miscreants, and on any given summer evening or weekend we were up to no good. We always expected a beating if the cops pulled up, and generally ran from them whenever we saw them.
The chases were quite a thrill for us.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

I was thinking maybe it was your dad..

 

[Distracted1]

I was thinking maybe it was your dad..

My father was actually a very peaceful man. I was the youngest of his 7 children, all raised in Southwest Detroit. We lost him when I was ten to a drunken driver.
When the neighborhood was taking a nosedive in the 70's he refused to keep a gun in the house, his motto being that we had nothing in our home worth taking someone's life over.

One might expect a harder stance from a vet.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

I apologize that my lame attempt at humor missed the humor mark and was nowhere near your real life situation.. I really do..

I'll edit my post and essentially delete it, if you want to delete yours...

Otherwise, I'll leave my asinine behavior for all the world to see.

 

[Distracted1]

I apologize that my lame attempt at humor missed the humor mark and was nowhere near your real life situation.. I really do..

I'll edit my post and essentially delete it, if you want to delete yours...

Otherwise, I'll leave my asinine behavior for all the world to see.

Wasn't asinine at all.
I have been a member of this forum of seven years, you will seldom find a thread in which I make more than a few posts.
This one strikes a cord with me because of my upbringing. I feel like the conversation often completely ignores the situations of the peaceful and law abiding residents of areas that are essentially lawless. It is easy to discuss the plights of the Michael Browns in the world from the safety of a quiet suburb. It totally disregards the real life situation of people like my parents who were just trying to raise a family without having one of their children killed- or having everything they own stolen.
For those of us who brush elbows with Mr. Brown daily, the police however flawed are all we have.

 

[casebro]

Aren't all three of the "witnesses" Ginger is basing her decision on, all friends? And were any interviewed at the scene? or only later? Johnson was involved, and the other two worked with him?

And the shots in the phone call, wasn't that call made at 2:00 PM? And who records their phone calls?

Or did I miss a couple posts that debunked those points?

 

[newyorkguy]

<snip> We always expected a beating if the cops pulled up <snip>

Do you think it's acceptable for police to beat kids? (I think I know what you're going to say: it's preferable to being arrested.)

I was more of the jock type when I was a teen but in my neighborhood the cops were a constant presence. I occasionally got in trouble but none of the officers ever put their hands on me and I can't remember any of the other kids saying they'd been roughed up. They used to give us lectures. Once a friend and I climbed the roof of an office building at night, just out of boredom, someone saw us and called the police. As we climbed down two uniformed cops were waiting for us. I remember one asking me, "Where's the tools?" He thought we were burglars. That was the first time I got frisked. When they realized we weren't planning a break-in I recall one of the cops telling us, somewhat angrily, "You kids trying to get yourselves shot? We don't know who's up there."

 

[Distracted1]

Caught with friends throwing/smashing our empty beer bottles behind a church in Southwest Detroit. That was part of our "mischief" that night anyway. We were generally miscreants, and on any given summer evening or weekend we were up to no good. We always expected a beating if the cops pulled up, and generally ran from them whenever we saw them.
The chases were quite a thrill for us.

Or to quote one of my favorite artists,

"...we grew up and learned that kinda thing ain't right, but while we was doin' it it sure felt outta sight.."

 

[Distracted1]

Do you think it's acceptable for police to beat kids? (I think I know what you're going to say: it's preferable to being arrested.)

I was more of the jock type when I was a teen but in my neighborhood the cops were a constant presence. I occasionally got in trouble but none of the officers ever put their hands on me and I can't remember any of the other kids saying they'd been roughed up. They used to give us lectures. Once a friend and I climbed the roof of an office building at night, just out of boredom, someone saw us and called the police. As we climbed down two uniformed cops were waiting for us. I remember one asking me, "Where's the tools?" He thought we were burglars. That was the first time I got frisked. When they realized we weren't planning a break-in I recall one of the cops telling us, somewhat angrily, "You kids trying to get yourselves shot? We don't know who's up there."

Actually, in the lawless world that was Detroit in the 1980's, yes.
We were more accurately teens at the time, " kids" is kind of a stretch.

 

[Ladewig]

I have to say no, no way. No one in the last thirty years (who has actually heard gunfire a few times) considers a revolver the default.

No offense, really.

I will assert (without out a citation of tangible evidence) that there are people who, while being shot at, lose their ability to think rationally and clearly. They are temporarily unable to consider all options and then select the best choice.

I will leave it to others to speculate what percentage of US 18-year-old men fit into that category.

ETA
I, like you, am not trying to point this out in an offensive, smug, or condescending way. I just wanted to respond to everyone who is saying that "there is no way anyone would have _____ed in this situation."

I have absolutely no idea precisely what Brown did and what his motivation was.

 

[GWCarver]

Aren't all three of the "witnesses" Ginger is basing her decision on, all friends? And were any interviewed at the scene? or only later? Johnson was involved, and the other two worked with him?

And the shots in the phone call, wasn't that call made at 2:00 PM? And who records their phone calls?

Or did I miss a couple posts that debunked those points?

I recall someone saying CNN reported processing the crime scene was delayed by shots fired around 2 pm. I know the New York Times says the St. Louis County Police arrived at around 1:30 pm and "Gunshots were heard at the scene, further disrupting the officers’ work."


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/u...ys-timeline-4-hours-on-a-ferguson-street.html

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Aren't all three of the "witnesses" Ginger is basing her decision on, all friends? And were any interviewed at the scene? or only later? Johnson was involved, and the other two worked with him?

And the shots in the phone call, wasn't that call made at 2:00 PM? And who records their phone calls?

Or did I miss a couple posts that debunked those points?

Johnson has a prior charge of filing a false police report, and of course was with brown in the robbery just prior.

I think that make his credibility almost nil.

Crenshaw claims in her interviews that she knew Brown. She says she was the one who told browns mother what happened.

And Mitchell was coming to pick up Crenshaw for work - so they know each other and work together. And certainly spoke with each other before the police.

Does that automatically make them non-credible witnesses ? No.

But it makes them far from impartial, IMO.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It is totally beyond me how you are coming up with the contention that I am claiming the audio is a fake!

[snipped typical argue with put downs]

Did anyone else think my comments on the recording, insinuated in any way that I think it's a fake?

Anyone?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10190792#post10190792

it seems to me that the wide variation in the sound is more than likely the mike moving around or being interfered with,

How is moving the mike even worth mentioning, let alone needing multiple posts pondering the 'change' in sound that might not even be there?

Given you've accepted flaky evidence in favor of Wilson and rejected anything that doesn't favor him, this sounded like you were implying something fishy with the recording.

All you needed to do was say you weren't implying anything was suspicious.

Perhaps you'd rather go for the, 'maybe it was a recording of the gunshots 2 hours later' to hand wave this evidence off?

 

[Ladewig]

It is totally beyond me how you are coming up with the contention that I am claiming the audio is a fake!

Did I confuse you with terms like " amplitude " and " horizontal " ....

You are such an expert on everything.. How about an acoustical analysis that rules out my speculation that the microphone was moved?

Did anyone else think my comments on the recording, insinuated in any way that I think it's a fake?

Anyone?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10190792#post10190792

I am with you.
I thought the analysis was a helpful summarization and I have no idea how the post could have been interpreted as questioning the legitimacy of the recording.

 

[Unabogie]

Aren't all three of the "witnesses" Ginger is basing her decision on, all friends?

Nope. None of them know each other. Where did you get that information?

 

[Ladewig]

How is moving the mike even worth mentioning, let alone needing multiple posts pondering the 'change' in sound that might not even be there?

Given you've accepted flaky evidence in favor of Wilson and rejected anything that doesn't favor him, this sounded like you were implying something fishy with the recording.

All you needed to do was say you weren't implying anything was suspicious.

Perhaps you'd rather go for the, 'maybe it was a recording of the gunshots 2 hours later' to hand wave this evidence off?

As for the mike moving around or being interfered with, I would claim that when talking on the phone it is very common to walk around, to move the phone from one hand to another, or to otherwise accidentally make noise that could be described as interfering with the microphone.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Johnson has a prior charge of filing a false police report, and of course was with brown in the robbery just prior.

I think that make his credibility almost nil.

Crenshaw claims in her interviews that she knew Brown. She says she was the one who told browns mother what happened.

And Mitchell was coming to pick up Crenshaw for work - so they know each other and work together. And certainly spoke with each other before the police.

Does that automatically make them non-credible witnesses ? No.

But it makes them far from impartial, IMO.

Aren't all three of the "witnesses" Ginger is basing her decision on, all friends?

Nope. None of them know each other. Where did you get that information?

So what witnesses are you talking about ?

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.policeone.com/close-quar...Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/

Google "Cops killed by own guns", you may find that your scenario is not always how things play out.

Yes, I was totally unaware that police officers are sometimes killed with their own guns.

In your scenario, you did not intend to kill the cop, but you took his gun during a fight, so he couldn't shoot you.

The cop is not going to consider that. He's just going to shoot you if you take his gun.

Maybe if you immediately throw it as far as you can...you won't get shot at.

 

[GWCarver]

How is moving the mike even worth mentioning, let alone needing multiple posts pondering the 'change' in sound that might not even be there?

Given you've accepted flaky evidence in favor of Wilson and rejected anything that doesn't favor him, this sounded like you were implying something fishy with the recording.

All you needed to do was say you weren't implying anything was suspicious.

Perhaps you'd rather go for the, 'maybe it was a recording of the gunshots 2 hours later' to hand wave this evidence off?

Do you know what time the recording was made?