• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Several shots to the arm, which could have been facing backwards. The post mortem diagram shows the arms in what is not a natural posture. Larger people often walk with the palms facing backwards, indeed, the video of Brown shows him walking with his palms facing bacwards.

The reason that I don't think any shots were square in the arm is that I would expect to see pass through wounds on the autopsy diagram.

I would expect matching entry and exit wounds on the arm, marked within the center area.

What I see, I think, are rounds that barely pass through the inner edge of the arm, and go on to hit the side of the torso.

I think the arm wounds can probably be lined up with the torso wounds.
 
That Michael Brown was a long way from being a model citizen,and that the Fergusion Police department is remarkably inept in dealing with the Black Communitry, could both be valid points is something a lot of people just cannot accept because it interferes with the ideologically motiviated narrative.
For a while even some mainstream Republicans (ie.not from the Rand Paul wing of the party) were saying we had to take a look at how police forces are using a lot of military gear they were getting, but that seems to have vanished in the usual bickering.

I think certain communities in certain areas can be basically impossible to deal with well.

I think outsiders coming in and seeing how things stand without seeing the totality of how it got that way, aren't in a very good position to know whether it's justified or not.

It would be like walking into an inner city school classroom and seeing a teacher who is just completely, over the top harsh with the students and not giving them an inch of leeway and then deciding she's a horrible teacher who has no ability to deal with students at all. What you'd be missing if you made that judgment is the back story, the fact that when she showed up as a starry eyed new teacher, her weakness was taken advantage of and no learning or teaching of any sort could take place because her students were just completely out of control, and that over time she found being the way she is now was the ONLY way to even have a prayer of doing any actual teaching or having even a measure of control over the classroom.

The only problem with that analogy is the fact that it really isn't possible. A teacher doesn't have the option of just becoming completely disciplinarian as a last resort. There is no last resort for teachers in those sorts of schools, other than to quit their job. If anyone doubts this, take the time to read some personal accounts from such teachers in such schools. If they try to crack down, they're just shouted over, intimidated, and physically assaulted. They tend to get no support whatsoever from the administration, and in the really bad schools such support wouldn't matter anyway. Some kids are just truly uncontrollable. A student has to show up at school with a certain degree of discipline and respect for authority already instilled in them by their upbringing. If that is absent, and if they have no fear at all of the teacher or of getting in trouble... beware.

So what those teachers really tend to do is either quit, or tune out and stop any meaningful attempt at teaching or caring, and often times they go along with pervasive, institutionalized cheating to make the students pass because of the intense pressure to get their failure rates down, and just shovel the kids through. Such practices are frighteningly common and most people have no idea just how common.

Anyway, how does this sort of situation play out if it's a police force and a neighborhood, or significant portion of a community, rather than a school environment? Well, cops have some additional tricks up their sleeves. They can get out the riot gear, and they can start shooting gas, bean bags, and perhaps even real bullets if things get bad enough. The stakes are higher, and lawless criminality is something which cannot be allowed to run free in the streets like it was a classroom.

Of course, certain people are trying very hard to make the police just as helpless as the teachers when faced with completely uncivilized people.

So, I'm not convinced there is such a thing as a police department which could deal well with certain communities. I may have Ferguson wrong, and maybe they aren't as bad as all that. Maybe the FPD really is just bad at their jobs, and maybe a more sensitive, receptive and intelligent police force could have handled this situation much better than they did. I do know that there are some areas in the US which absolutely are un-policeable though.
 
Well, no one wishes to speak ill of the deceased, of course.

However, I was getting pretty tired of the media's description of Brown as simply an "unarmed teen-ager", which does conjure up a different vision from "unarmed, 300-pound legal adult who had just committed a felony robbery".....

Here at the university yesterday, we had a brief solidarity moment.... At noon, perhaps 25-30 students in total walked out of their classes (conveniently at about noon) and had a little rally in the quad, with a fellow on a bullhorn speaking about all the injustice...

No one seemed to pay a lot of attention, but I'm sure the students felt good about it.
 
Conversation sounds very fake...

I've heard worse real conversations.

I count 6 + 4, so 60% hits. Not bad shooting in an excited condition.

Six w/ four hits to the arm, Brown stops for a second, Wilson pauses, then Brown starts a charge and gets finished?
 
Well, no one wishes to speak ill of the deceased, of course.

However, I was getting pretty tired of the media's description of Brown as simply an "unarmed teen-ager", which does conjure up a different vision from "unarmed, 300-pound legal adult who had just committed a felony robbery".....

Here at the university yesterday, we had a brief solidarity moment.... At noon, perhaps 25-30 students in total walked out of their classes (conveniently at about noon) and had a little rally in the quad, with a fellow on a bullhorn speaking about all the injustice...

No one seemed to pay a lot of attention, but I'm sure the students felt good about it.

Although factually correct the description bothers me too.

Not knowing much about guns I have some questions for you or other knowledgeable people.
1) Is the number of shots claim to be taken unusual or are the shots so rapid that is not unusual.
2) Is it hard to take less shots?
3) Can you reasonably tell if someone is not armed? If I was a policeman who had been involved in a struggle with someone I would entertain the possibility that person was armed.
 
I've heard worse real conversations.

I count 6 + 4, so 60% hits. Not bad shooting in an excited condition.

Six w/ four hits to the arm, Brown stops for a second, Wilson pauses, then Brown starts a charge and gets finished?

Plus the round fired in the vehicle.

That's 11 shots total.

Don't forget that the official autopsy gave a figure of 6 to 8 bullets entering the front, if the media can be believed.
 
Is this a joke?

Given the images of the 20ft wide street, I truly cannot tell.

:rolleyes:

Fire trucks are about 8 feet wide and it takes up most of the lane.
So we have an estimated measurement of 28 feet, and we can see how wide it is compared to the fire truck. Either way it's a very narrow 2 lane street. I'm not sure how 20 feet vs 28 feet makes any difference. It's not a street the cop needed to hassle anyone on unless he was looking to hassle some teens.
Think the cops should give all those people tickets?
[/qimg]

You misspelled "I was wrong"
 
I was listening to a live town hall meeting today from Ferguson. One of the speakers said MB did NOT steal the cigars. The altercation in the C store was because MB reached into the cashier area to get the cigars he wanted and the clerk got mad at him for doing so. I have no idea whether this is true or not but I'm just putting it out there.

I'm guessing it's not true, and that person is just having a really hard time imagining Mike Brown could steal something ...

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/loca...orian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/

ERGUSON, Mo. (AP) - The friend who was with Michael Brown when he was shot and killed by a police officer near St. Louis over the weekend is reportedly confirming that he and Brown had taken part in the theft of cigars from a convenience store that day.

That word comes from the attorney for Dorian Johnson, speaking to MSNBC.
 
Folks, as a reminder...please stay on topic, keep it civil, and address the argument vs attack the arguer.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar
 
That depends, was this company in your hypothetical disbanded because of grievous corruption involving said employees?

Also, you are literally calling dozens and dozens of news agencies out for also saying he was fired:

.....
....And we know news agencies never get anything wrong, or use inflammatory ( no pun intended ) words, when something more benign and realistic like " layed off " might tell the story more accurately ..
 
That depends, was this company in your hypothetical disbanded because of grievous corruption involving said employees?

Also, you are literally calling dozens and dozens of news agencies out for also saying he was fired:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...c796f0-2a45-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html

Yes.

http://jobsearch.about.com/od/firedtermination/qt/fired-laid-off.htm
When an Employee is Fired
An employee is fired when his personal performance is unsatisfactory, or if he does not comply with company standards. When an employee is fired, there is no expectation of being rehired at a future date.

When an Employee is Laid Off
When an employee is laid off, it typically has nothing to do with the employee's personal performance. Layoffs occur when a company undergoes restructuring or downsizing, or goes out of business. In some cases, a layoff may be temporary, and the employee is rehired when the economy improves.


Was he really fired for cause ? Or was this really a simple termination of all employees.

I better add something else to this post to give you the opportunity to ignore the above and focus on attempting to attack the below as biased:

Here is an interesting aspect of that disbanding: As noted earlier, insufficient records were kept (see relevant side-story here), and they were all fired; so it is not really possible to know which officers in particular were corrupt.

And yet many of the fired officers re-applied for that new attempt at a credible department:

I'm not saying it is proof he was involved in the shenanigans in that depended department, but I'm sure we can all guess one reason why certain officers would not re-apply. Or perhaps just the bad ones re-applied and the good ones were fed up and went elsewhere? Or perhaps it is unrelated.

No, you're just insinuating it without any evidence.

Perhaps the answer was actually in the article ...

The job in Ferguson represented a step up and likely a significant salary increase.
 
Last edited:
Although factually correct the description bothers me too.

Not knowing much about guns I have some questions for you or other knowledgeable people.
1) Is the number of shots claim to be taken unusual or are the shots so rapid that is not unusual.
2) Is it hard to take less shots?
3) Can you reasonably tell if someone is not armed? If I was a policeman who had been involved in a struggle with someone I would entertain the possibility that person was armed.

The number of shots taken matters only to the likes of Jessee Jackson and Al Sharpton, the race hustlers.

Once a policeman (or anyone else for that matter) decides to use his weapon he fires until the assailant goes down. He is taught to shoot until the threat is stopped. The number of shots is irrelevant to anything else. How ever many is takes is simply how many are needed to stop the threat. This is also true of civilians who know anything valid about self defense.

No, it's neither difficult or easy to take less shots. Typically, he will fire two (called a double tap) and assess, then fire more as needed. I'll tell you this, if what we've heard is true, that Brown attacked him in the car and tried to take his weapon, I'd fire at that charging 300 # man until the magazine was empty and then reload for a second string if that's what it took to stop the assailant.

Determining if someone is armed might be difficult if they don't show the weapon. If they don't show it, it would be difficult for them to use it on you, wouldn't it? However, one does not have to be armed to be a deadly threat.

I've answered based on your questions, not based on the assumption that what we do know is all true. We still don't know all of the facts and my answers don't presume that we do...
 
Well, no one wishes to speak ill of the deceased, of course.

However, I was getting pretty tired of the media's description of Brown as simply an "unarmed teen-ager", which does conjure up a different vision from "unarmed, 300-pound legal adult who had just committed a felony robbery".....

Here at the university yesterday, we had a brief solidarity moment.... At noon, perhaps 25-30 students in total walked out of their classes (conveniently at about noon) and had a little rally in the quad, with a fellow on a bullhorn speaking about all the injustice...

No one seemed to pay a lot of attention, but I'm sure the students felt good about it.

Yeah, I saw that in the paper. 25 students out of a campus of thousands. Good job SJWs!

I find it odd that they are protesting a "crime" that may not have even happened. Not the brightest bulbs in the box.
 
The number of shots taken matters only to the likes of Jessee Jackson and Al Sharpton, the race hustlers.

That's it? The only people who care how many times an unarmed person is shot are "race hustlers"? Is "race hustler" a code word of some sort? Because there are obviously more people than those two who care about police killings. Where do you get this statistic from?
 
I just responded to this very poster asking for a cite of people being jovial about this tragic event, and what do you know, they also have a post thinking that this killing, whether justifiable or not, is something to joke about. Can't believe I wasted my time.

I have stated I can understand people believing the police shooting was justified, although I am very suspicious this could have been resolved in a much less violent way. Some of the posters who feel the police officer was probably justified have been fairly objective about it and have exercised some restraint in expressing it. I appreciate it. The sarcastic, snarky comments have bothered me too. I think they serve at least two purposes for the posters who make them: one it's a way to marginalize Michael Brown, to trivialize his death, to make clear their lack of compassion and two it's a passive-aggressive way to flame posters that obviously take this matter very seriously.

Most of us see these kids around. The black kids who embrace the gangsta style, the inner city style. The pants hanging down, the brash talk, the rap music, the aggressive posture. I see them too. The difference is I know some of them. I know some of their parents, I know most of them are basically decent kids. I know a lot of this is just a style which they'll grow out of.

Some of these kids do have tough lives. At times they deal with it in very foolish ways. I too worry about some of them because I know they could be one stupidity away from ending up like Michael Brown. Adolescents do stupid things. There is a sizable segment of the adult population that basically have very little tolerance for misbehaving black youth. Partly it is racism. Is anyone claiming there is NO racism in America? Is anyone seriously claiming we haven't seen biased attitudes here?

Or am I the one who is biased? :rolleyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom