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Michael Brown Shooting

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steve s said:
The Ruler feature in Google Earth puts the street at about 28 feet wide. And before Ginger dismisses it as being too inaccurate, the pic below shows it's accurate to within about 0.06%.

[qimg]http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i347/Steven_A_S/ruler_zps9298bf6f.png[/qimg]

Steve S
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Yeah, but that's length and we were interested in width. No one cares how long the street is.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Stories are similar?

Remember the FB page came first.

If not fake, now it is even more removed than third hand:At what point are you going to admit this stuff is not evidence of anything except maybe Wilson has groupies?
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I propose a detente: I'll admit this if you admit that the convenience store robbery footage is not evidence of anything except maybe Brown assaulted a police officer and got shot for his trouble.

I mean, that footage is the single most immediately relevant piece of hard evidence we have about either person's background. If it were footage of Wilson swiping some smokes and intimidating the clerk, shortly before the shooting, there'd be no doubt in anyone's mind that Wilson almost certainly shot Brown in cold blood. But it's not footage of Wilson. It's footage of Brown.
 
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Fire trucks are about 8 feet wide and it takes up most of the lane.
6sIeSML.jpg


So we have an estimated measurement of 28 feet, and we can see how wide it is compared to the fire truck. Either way it's a very narrow 2 lane street. I'm not sure how 20 feet vs 28 feet makes any difference. It's not a street the cop needed to hassle anyone on unless he was looking to hassle some teens.


Think the cops should give all those people tickets?
53nvVpM.jpg
 
Distracted1 said:
Actually, had the unarmed Mr. Brown not even been walking in the middle of the street on his way home from committing a violent felony at the convenience store, he could still be considered an imminent threat to officer Wilson after his attack upon him.
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Because from 20 feet away with his hands in the air, Brown could have laid a voodoo curse on Wilson. :rolleyes:
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Fire trucks are about 8 feet wide and it takes up most of the lane.
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/6sIeSML.jpg[/qimg]

So we have an estimated measurement of 28 feet, and we can see how wide it is compared to the fire truck. Either way it's a very narrow 2 lane street. I'm not sure how 20 feet vs 28 feet makes any difference. It's not a street the cop needed to hassle anyone on unless he was looking to hassle some teens.


Think the cops should give all those people tickets?
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/53nvVpM.jpg[/qimg]
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Serious spiritual energy in that second picture. Check out all the orbs.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
It's also not perpendicular. If it were it would stick well into the other lane.

If it's 17 feet long, that street is not much wider than 20 feet. Unless one is hallucinating. :rolleyes:
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Fire trucks are about 8 feet wide and it takes up most of the lane.
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/6sIeSML.jpg[/qimg]

So we have an estimated measurement of 28 feet, and we can see how wide it is compared to the fire truck. Either way it's a very narrow 2 lane street. I'm not sure how 20 feet vs 28 feet makes any difference. It's not a street the cop needed to hassle anyone on unless he was looking to hassle some teens.
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Interesting. <takes notes>
 
I'm getting lost in all the math. I'd like to hear more about how many kids Brown fathered out of wedlock.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
It was pointed out when the chief's claim Wilson didn't have anything bad in his files that a lot of 'bad' wasn't put in anyone's files.
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Huh? He had still worked for Fergusson for 3-4 years or so. Are you now implying that it's been a cover up since day 1? This guy is just lucky enough to leap frog to racists neighborhoods and police stations where he never gets reported? Also, there had to be some bad in the file or at least some bad reported enough that they knew there was a problem large enough to dissolve the precinct. Unless they used some kind of mind reading devices.

Skeptic Ginger said:
I implied no such thing. It was a small department that was so bad they all got fired. You think Wilson was the one good apple in the barrel of bad apples?
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Any evidence that he was part of the bad apples outside of your own conjecture? The whole point of releasing the whole department is that they probably weren't sure who was good or bad. Yes, a sad and ****** state of affairs. To prove that Wilson wasn't, specifically, the problem, Wilson went to a different precinct where he also received no violations. It could even be that he was looking for a way out because he recognized how bad it was. Instead of going back to that same area, he decided to try and make a change somewhere else. You have as much proof against my theory as you do supporting yours.

Not to mention, the FPD had enough state of mind to hand the investigation over immediately so that the screams of, "COVER UP!!!!!" could be ignored. The FBI and St. Louis Police Departments are handling it, and have from pretty much the get-go. Unless we're creeping into 9/11 size conspiracies here.

Skeptic Ginger said:
No, Josie wasn't third hand, she was a fake. You missed that post, go back to start.
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Fine, then take Josie out. I really don't care. She was the second of the witnesses that proved something YOU ALREADY ADMITTED TOO. The previous poster stated that "Wilson is the only one to have claimed there was a fight in the car, right?" Or something similar. I replied with more than one source saying that there was a fight at the car, and you readily admit there was. Are you just fighting to hear your own voice?
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
He has to explain how the shots entered into the top of Brown's head.
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You don't suppose that maybe Brown doubled over in pain after having been shot several times? If you got shot, do you think you'd still be standing upright?

Steve S
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
No weapon, the crime of theft of cigars, shoving a clerk, jaywalking, and resisting arrest: if you are talking about shooting a fleeing suspect.

That's who you think police are justified calling an imminent threat?
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So....yeah...something's not getting parsed correctly.

What I'm saying is that in examining the standard Missouri jury instruction for use of force as a law enforcement officer and trying to apply to what little fact set is available, that it is difficult to construct a plausible scenario where:

a) Wilson claims the use of force was necessary; and

b) Wilson does not claim that he was in fear of death or serious injury.

It kind of helps me set some constraints to consider -- especially when evaluating things like Wilson's own narrative as it becomes available. For instance, in this case and in my opinion, it would take a fairly extraordinary set of yet-unknown circumstances to justify the use of force outside an immediate threat to Wilson.

If Wilson's story is he would not submit to arrest but instead tried to escape so I shot him without a use or pretty immediate threat of force, I'm having a hard time buying it.

Skeptic Ginger said:
That's sad you think petty criminals are that dangerous.
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That one's easy - petty criminal is not dispositive in this instance. In fact, I've already set in my mind a constraint against those claiming that as a sole dispositive factor. It does work to rebut the notion of a jaywalking warning as provocation -- petty criminals being so not dangerous, right?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
So given that observation, why would a cop choose to yell at these two walking on that residential street if the norm is for cops to ignore jaywalkers on busy streets downtown?
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Jaywalking and walking down the middle of the road are two entirely different things and its been pointed out before in this thread.

Cutting quickly across a street without using traffic signals and/or an intersection to cross is one thing. I think we've all done that a time or two.

Sauntering aimlessly down the middle of the road and basically making vehicles go around you because you think you're Mr. Badass and own the road is a completely different story.

Judging by his actions at the QuickTrip, Brown was walking down the middle of the road and his attitude was **** you to anyone who tried to stop him.
 
jimbob said:
I thought that aggressive behaviour was a moderately common symptom of concussion.
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Not according to this:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/concussion/basics/symptoms/con-20019272


Signs and symptoms of a concussion may include:
•Headache or a feeling of pressure in the head
•Temporary loss of consciousness
•Confusion or feeling as if in a fog
•Amnesia surrounding the traumatic event
•Dizziness or "seeing stars"
•Ringing in the ears
•Nausea
•Vomiting
•Slurred speech
•Delayed response to questions
•Appearing dazed
•Fatigue

Some symptoms of concussions may be immediate or delayed in onset by hours or days after injury, such as:
•Concentration and memory complaints
•Irritability and other personality changes
•Sensitivity to light and noise
•Sleep disturbances
•Psychological adjustment problems and depression
•Disorders of taste and smell
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quadraginta said:
Thanks. I was thinking it ought to be there somewhere. I like the way it lets you stretch to waypoints.

It doesn't convert to smoots for you, though. :(
I just compared a couple of locations. In those instances, at least, Google Earth seems to get more magnification with good resolution. I think it might be a bit more precise. Probably not enough to matter.
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If you go back to the Classic Google Maps you can get all sorts of different measurements, including smoots.


picture.php
 
Unabogie said:
You keep saying things like this, but who is making the case that Michael Brown was a model citizen? Can you provide some quotes?
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Well this from the first page of the thread:

KatieG said:
I hope the facts will be available soon. Right now it appears to be a case of walking while black. MB just graduated high school and was headed to a community college. Doesn't sound like a trouble maker to me.
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