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Michael Brown Shooting

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LTC8K6 said:
Just does block one lane in this shot. No "and then some".

Different cameras are giving different impressions of sizes and distances.
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Is this a joke? You people are joking, right?

og3d6nJ.png


I know that yellow line is hard to see but the width of the lane relative to the SUV is not.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I hate to spoil your fantasy but arterioles through residential neighborhoods are common.
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I never heard the word arteriole before but I get the idea that in this context it's means some sort of a road that is designed to carry more traffic than a normal residential street and less than a highway.

OK, to use my newly learned word, that looks like an arteriole to me, yellow stripes and all. Around here normal suburban residential streets of the kind one might play some sort of sport on don't have yellow stripes except occasionally around sharp curves. So what's the point of this conversation? Was it reasonable for a cop to ask a couple of guys walking down the street to use the sidewalk? Looked like it to me, unless the street carried very little traffic and the cop was into hassling people for the hell of it.

The more important issue is how the cop handled asking the guys not to walk down the street. Was he confrontational? Was he polite? Was he antagonistic to the point that some kind of confrontation was likely? I doubt that the answers to these questions are knowable. The two people who know, Dorian Johnson and Wilson, both have strong reasons to tell the story in a particular way which makes what they say with regard to this suspect. I would lean to believing the cop instead of a criminal previously charged with lying to the police. But cops lie, so who knows?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Is this a joke? You people are joking, right?

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/og3d6nJ.png[/qimg]

I know that yellow line is hard to see but the width of the lane relative to the SUV is not.
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No, no one is joking.

We just disagree. I don't see things the way you see them. I use different means of determining things than you use.

Is there something wrong with that?

The road is a normal two lane divided road. It's not especially narrow, or especially wide. It is unremarkable.

There is nothing unusual whatsoever in being told to get out of the middle of the road by a passing cop, imo.
 
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LTC8K6 said:
Looks to be a late model Chevy Tahoe, which would be 17 feet long, btw.
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How long on the diagonal (corner to corner at an angle)?

ETA: Looked it up. A width (without counting mirrors) is given as 6.7 ft. Pythagoras' theorem gives me about 18 ft on the diagonal.

Why was this important again?
 
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davefoc said:
I never heard the word arteriole before but I get the idea that in this context it's means some sort of a road that is designed to carry more traffic than a normal residential street and less than a highway.
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Yeah, except in the real estate biz instead of the blood biz they're called arterials, and the comparison is to arteries. The last I heard arteries were not considered minor side streets in the blood circulation, but Ginger may have newer information.

If you look the street up on Google Maps or Mapquest, you will quickly see that it is not some lazy by-way, but a very serious street that goes from a bunch of apartment complexes to a main drag in Ferguson. Of course, Ginger's bias needs to be some lazy backwater, and so to her it is.
 
davefoc said:
[ . . . ]The more important issue is how the cop handled asking the guys not to walk down the street. Was he confrontational? Was he polite? Was he antagonistic to the point that some kind of confrontation was likely? I doubt that the answers to these questions are knowable. The two people who know, Dorian Johnson and Wilson, both have strong reasons to tell the story in a particular way which makes what they say with regard to this suspect. I would lean to believing the cop instead of a criminal previously charged with lying to the police. But cops lie, so who knows?
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Good points davefoc.
Has it been confirmed Wilson had been notified by radio of the strong-armed robbery of the convenience store?
Did he think he was dealing with possible suspects or with jaywalkers?

The confrontation at the car window between Brown and Wilson, is it confirmed?



Brainster said:
[ . . . ]If you look the street up on Google Maps or Mapquest, you will quickly see that it is not some lazy by-way, but a very serious street that goes from a bunch of apartment complexes to a main drag in Ferguson. [ . . . ]
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Thanks for the information Brainster.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
If you think cops don't ignore a gazillion laws when it doesn't matter and don't hassle people for no good reason, you need to get out more.
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Not what i think, and i didn't say that, but nice try. I've had both happen to me in the past, but you're the one claiming that the stop was unnecessary, so why don't you provide something other than your opinion to back that up?
 
Brainster said:
Yeah, except in the real estate biz instead of the blood biz they're called arterials, and the comparison is to arteries. The last I heard arteries were not considered minor side streets in the blood circulation, but Ginger may have newer information.

If you look the street up on Google Maps or Mapquest, you will quickly see that it is not some lazy by-way, but a very serious street that goes from a bunch of apartment complexes to a main drag in Ferguson. Of course, Ginger's bias needs to be some lazy backwater, and so to her it is.
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Thanks.

I see there is no passing allowed on this street, which means it might be dangerous to do so. Something you'd have no choice in doing if two people were walking down the road. Don't know what Wilson was thinking asking them to go use the sidewalk, the nerve of some policemen!
 
ProBonoShill said:
Thanks.

I see there is no passing allowed on this street, which means it might be dangerous to do so. Something you'd have no choice in doing if two people were walking down the road. Don't know what Wilson was thinking asking them to go use the sidewalk, the nerve of some policemen!
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"You're here to serve and protect, unless it inconveniences me in some way."
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Pictures of the street with the body in it clearly show a very narrow 2 lane street. It may have been an arteriole. It was narrower than the street in front of my house that actually is an arteriole. Cars come minutes to dozens of minutes apart. People walk in the street, they move out of the way when a vehicle comes. I cannot fathom a cop telling anyone to get out of the street in front of my house. It wouldn't cross my mind a cop would ever do that on a small residential street.

Claiming it was a law doesn't make it any less true that cop was hassling these two for no obvious reason other than he felt like it.
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I have no idea if this is what happened in this particular case. When I initially read the article, I pictured a busy road. After I saw the road, my imagination filled in the gap with a common occurrence in my neighborhood. Because it is very similar to the traffic and size of how you described your street, the teens aren't all that concerned with safety. Admittedly, I don't use the sidewalks, either, because there are a lot of overhanging trees and lots of webs to walk through but I stay to the side--a lot of the kids around here don't. They look right at you and keep on walking, sometimes completely blocking you from passing. Because I live in a very mixed neighborhood I can say with certainty that it is a teen thing and not a race, thing. Obviously, that says nothing for the guilt or innocence of Wilson, it's just what I identified with when they said Wilson yelled, "Get the **** out of the road!"
 
casebro said:
Because until the next leak, there just isn't anything more important to discuss.
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Ah. Makes sense. But why wouldn't they just look it up? Aren't things like road widths standardized by zoning or other statute?

Wait. I know the answer to that too - it's more fun to look at photographs and guess.

Thanks. I'm all caught up now. Is Brown still dead?
 
sgtbaker said:
I have no idea if this is what happened in this particular case. When I initially read the article, I pictured a busy road. After I saw the road, my imagination filled in the gap with a common occurrence in my neighborhood. Because it is very similar to the traffic and size of how you described your street, the teens aren't all that concerned with safety. Admittedly, I don't use the sidewalks, either, because there are a lot of overhanging trees and lots of webs to walk through but I stay to the side--a lot of the kids around here don't. They look right at you and keep on walking, sometimes completely blocking you from passing. Because I live in a very mixed neighborhood I can say with certainty that it is a teen thing and not a race, thing. Obviously, that says nothing for the guilt or innocence of Wilson, it's just what I identified with when they said Wilson yelled, "Get the **** out of the road!"
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What kind of attitude is exhibited by not simply taking three steps to the sidewalk when asked to do so by a policeman?

If it were a civilian driving down that street instead of a patrolman, would they be required to slow to a crawl as they followed behind the two teens, after all, they were almost there.

I am sure no civilian would blow the horn and say anything like "get out of the damn street" to the likes of Mr. Brown.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Pictures of the street with the body in it clearly show a very narrow 2 lane street. It may have been an arteriole. It was narrower than the street in front of my house that actually is an arteriole. Cars come minutes to dozens of minutes apart. People walk in the street, they move out of the way when a vehicle comes.
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There's a clue in there somewhere...

I cannot fathom a cop telling anyone to get out of the street in front of my house. It wouldn't cross my mind a cop would ever do that on a small residential street.
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You cannot fathom it, anywhere, anytime? On what planet is it normal & acceptable for people to interfere with vehicular traffic while they walk down the middle of the street?

Claiming it was a law doesn't make it any less true that cop was hassling these two for no obvious reason other than he felt like it.
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Can you let us in on your definition of 'obvious', so we can all discuss the same thing...

Skeptic Ginger said:
..........I get it people want to excuse justify this cop's behavior. But at least be realistic about it, save the justifying for the shooting. Why would any cop waste his time telling them to get on the sidewalk?
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Uhh, that would be because they are in the middle of a street that is bordered by sidewalks...

Since the street is so narrow as you claim, I guess you think the police officer should have driven on the sidewalk, so they could continue on their way ..

No one is saying their behavior justified anyone being shot, but had they Listened to Wilson, Brown might still be alive..
 
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