• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Michael Brown Shooting

Status
Not open for further replies.
LTC8K6 said:
Both are female, and the one working with the GJ is black, is what I have read.
Click to expand...

McCulloch went off-script when he presented to the grand jury. The Missouri Constitution is clear that no person can suspend their power to investigate official misconduct -- not even the governor's state of emergency can touch them.
 
Last edited:
Robert McCulloch has been County Attorney since 1991. The idea that he can't do his job all of a sudden because of something that happened to his father in 1964 is ridiculous. I can't believe what I'm hearing.
 
I wonder if some of the McCullouch must go has it roots in the feuds that seem to infest the Missouri Democratic party. Ironic that McCullouch and some of his most vehement critics are BOTH Democrats.
And it's no secret that Governor Nixon and Senator McClusky are barely on speaking terms.
 
I hope the facts support no charges against Wilson and that none come, and I hope McCulloch feels that he honored his father's memory by whatever he does here.

From what I've seen, there is no reason for all this anger or attention. Routine shooting of violent felon thug who was attacking a decorated officer who was there risking his life to protect this ungrateful community from thugs like Brown.

I'm unimpressed with the hood rat witnesses coming out with versions which put the officer in a bad light, anyone who knows anything about communities like that knows this is likewise utterly routine. Not saying there aren't people there who'd tell the truth no matter what, but they're getting rarer and there are certainly enough white hating, cop hating, or just emotionally compromised people around to get a handful of witnesses who'll say whatever they think will get the cop in hot water. Snitches get stitches, and liars who help a thug and hurt a white cop are heroes.

If Brown's hands were ever up, I'm guessing it was in the very last moment when it was too late for the officer to stop a decision he'd already made, when you're squeezing off a volley like that, you haven't got the time or ability to do reassessment in the middle of it.

Michael Brown had a very easy and sensible way to not be shot dead. Don't attack a cop. Not attacking and stealing from the store owner would've helped avoid his richly deserved fate, too.

It's hard to imagine facts which could exist and be firmly established which would justify criminal charges on an officer who shot a felon who'd attacked him moments earlier.

Let him go, and let Ferguson burn. Our society has already embarrassed itself by taking these ignorant, racist whining criminal lovers as seriously as we have.

McCulloch getting an opportunity to do the right thing for an officer who found himself in the same situation his father had, but who had the temerity to refuse to be killed, is the stuff movies are made of. Standing up to a violent mob howling for blood and adhering to the law while cowards beg you to violate it, is a heroic moment in any DA's career.
 
Last edited:
Skeptic Ginger said:
Allowing some people to observe the investigation while putting up screens blocking the view of the body to most of the bystanders would have been more respectful without raising suspicions that any evidence tampering was going on.
Click to expand...

Screens?
You think it would be possible to put screens between some of the observers and the body "without raising suspicions."

I am not saying the FPD did everything they could. I am just saying that in this instance it would be impossible to put up screens anywhere without raising suspicions.
 
marplots said:
What's a "hood rat?"
Click to expand...

You can check urban dictionary if you like, but I was using it to mean someone who lives in the hood and is steeped in hood values. Someone who sympathizes with criminals and lies to police without hesitation. They may be a criminal themselves, or may not. Someone who views life as one long opportunity for getting away with things, and sees themselves at odds with society.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
You can check urban dictionary if you like, but I was using it to mean someone who lives in the hood and is steeped in hood values. Someone who sympathizes with criminals and lies to police without hesitation. They may be a criminal themselves, or may not. Someone who views life as one long opportunity for getting away with things, and sees themselves at odds with society.
Click to expand...

OK. Like that chick selling pot in "Weeds."

ETA: There's a lot of context I don't know here. When you wrote, "I'm unimpressed with the hood rat witnesses coming out with versions which put the officer in a bad light, anyone who knows anything about communities like that knows this is likewise utterly routine," it looks like you were able to identify these people from the video, perhaps picking up subtle cultural clues I missed.

I didn't know about "hood rats" and "communities like that."
 
Last edited:
dudalb said:
Now there is talk of Pro Wilson demonstrators wanting to demonstrate in Ferguson. IMHO they should have the same right and protections that the Anti Wilson demonstartors have.
If this becomes a major issue I think we will see quite a bit of hypocrisy here.
Click to expand...

I'm moderately in the pro-Wilson camp while retaining my right to switch based on evidence. But I don't think this would serve any good purpose. It's like when the Ulster Orange want to march through the Catholic area, or vice-versa; just asking for trouble. Legal yes, should be protected, yes, but a bad idea nonetheless.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Explaining to the parents right away what was going on with the crime scene would have helped.
Allowing some people to observe the investigation while putting up screens blocking the view of the body to most of the bystanders would have been more respectful without raising suspicions that any evidence tampering was going on.
Making it a priority to finish with the body so it could be removed. [ . . .]
Click to expand...

What do you think the priority is when analysing a crime scene?
Do you honestly think that putting up screens would have allayed the anxiety of the bystanders rather than excite their suspicions?

Ah.
I see Ladewig said it first.


Ladewig said:
Screens?
You think it would be possible to put screens between some of the observers and the body "without raising suspicions."

I am not saying the FPD did everything they could. I am just saying that in this instance it would be impossible to put up screens anywhere without raising suspicions.
Click to expand...

I think you're right, Ladewig, on both counts. IIRC some of the observers were indignant because the corpse wasn't removed in the ambulance which arrived on the scene.
 
GWCarver said:
Robert McCulloch has been County Attorney since 1991. The idea that he can't do his job all of a sudden because of something that happened to his father in 1964 is ridiculous. I can't believe what I'm hearing.
Click to expand...

Despite your outrage, It might be seen as a conflict of interrest. The fact that it hapenned 50+ years ago do not change that. On the contrary there are arguments that the kid was 12 year old when it hapenned might have marked him profundely. And thus influencing him undully in this case, no matter which way the influence goes.
 
Maybe McCulloch is biased in favor of cops, and maybe that bias could be the only thing standing in the way of a witch hunt fueled by other, opposite biases.

Maybe he has a tendency to think a cop in a situation like this did what he had to do, and maybe he's right.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Maybe McCulloch is biased in favor of cops, and maybe that bias could be the only thing standing in the way of a witch hunt fueled by other, opposite biases.

Maybe he has a tendency to think a cop in a situation like this did what he had to do, and maybe he's right.
Click to expand...

And maybe you are adding argument on why he should not be involved. Just sayin'.
One should be striving for no bias. Not a perceived "counter bias" or whatnot.
 
Aepervius said:
And maybe you are adding argument on why he should not be involved. Just sayin'.
One should be striving for no bias. Not a perceived "counter bias" or whatnot.
Click to expand...

All we can do here is speculate. Nothing I can think or say pushes this in one direction or the other. He is the presiding elected official in this matter and many people in law enforcement come from families with a history in the field.

The onus is on those who think he should recuse himself to demonstrate a better reason than "we love criminals and Mike Brown was a criminal and McCulloch has a known bias against criminals!"
 
Last edited:
Skeptic Tank said:
All we can do here is speculate. Nothing I can think or say pushes this in one direction or the other. He is the presiding elected official in this matter and many people in law enforcement come from families with a history in the field.

The onus is on those who think he should recuse himself to demonstrate a better reason than "we love criminals and Mike Brown was a criminal and McCulloch has a known bias against criminals!"
Click to expand...

The onus was fulfilled. He was a son which at 12 lost a father because some thug took a pistol from the policeman and killed him. The situation is too identical to not ask about the bias. YOURSELF cited needed counter bias , at least citing potentially bias on his side.

At this point normally you would recuse yourself as potentially or ask a higher instance/advisory group whether to stay or not.

Note that I do not care either way, from what I read up to now at least the first bullet might have been warranted, and the local law being as it was this is probably enough alone to exonerate the policemen.

But the accompanying rethoric, the outright racism on all side, the downright stupid reaction of the local enforcement, the potential bias of some, and the intentional stocking the fire by some, this all make what should have been a non event takes longer to calm down that it should have.

Replacing temporary him cost nothing and appease people. And to boot, it shows a striving for no-bias , and in fact does not damage justice/law to ensure no bias.
And yet there are people asking why the apparence of bias is a problem. In a whole story where bias or perceived bias has been the problem from the start.
 
Aepervius said:
One should be striving for no bias.
Click to expand...



Don't be under any false allusions. The side that is pro-Wilson (as opposed to the side that is skepticism/neutral not as opposed to the side that is pro-Brown) thinks that McCulloch is pro-Wilson as well. All this crap about "if he steps aside it would be like letting the rioters win" is just so they don't have to admit that they think he is "their guy".
 
More on Ferguson

There has also been a simmering economic grievance in Ferguson. Historically, it was not known as a blighted community. Ferguson was like many suburbs, somewhat insulated from the sort of strife that began in the late 1960s in mainly inner urban areas of America's cities. In 2000, the unemployment rate was about 5 per cent and the ethnic composition was split was roughly 50:50 between black and white.
But Ferguson was hit hard by economic downturn, not just in 2008, but by the erosion of America's manufacturing industry. Many African-Americans found the manufacturing and heavy industries were quite inclusive when it came to employment. But those have been gradually moved to the southern states, where unions are a greatly diminished force, or even further south - below the Mexican border.
Major car makers have abandoned greater St Louis - a huge blow to a proud blue collar town such as Ferguson - leaving only Emerson Electric as the major manufacturing employer.
Now, according to Timemagazine, the unemployment rate is 13 per cent overall, the number of residents living in poverty has doubled, and there has been so-called "white flight". The town is now 66 per cent black.
Pierson said Ferguson was especially hurt during the Great Recession by home foreclosures on so-called "underwater mortgages". And while Fortunereported this week that foreclosures had fallen 80 per cent since the height of economic crisis, the recovery was not felt equally. When local unemployment figures are broken down, joblessness among blacks is 26 per cent, compared with 6 per cent for whites.
Click to expand...


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-22/west-ferguson-was-a-tinder-box-awaiting-the-match/5689398
 
GWCarver said:
Robert McCulloch has been County Attorney since 1991. The idea that he can't do his job all of a sudden because of something that happened to his father in 1964 is ridiculous. I can't believe what I'm hearing.
Click to expand...


The idea isn't that he can't do his job.

The idea is that there is deep suspicion within the community, and he has past history which raises the specter of possibility that he won't do his job in this particular instance.

This is exactly the basis for most if not all recusals, and no stigma need be attached. In fact it can easily be taken as evidence of propriety. Not to mention a gesture of good faith.

Which is just what the community needs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom