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Michael Brown Shooting

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Distracted1 said:
Actually, until and unless it is corroborated by a credible source it really should be tabled.
Arguing the point based upon the source as presented is like arguing that " Bigfoot" did it because some loony posted it somewhere and no one can yet prove that Bigfoot didn't do it.
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OMG! Good for you. I give you credit for being the first to look at the facts on this one.
 
steve s said:
Pointing out that a blob of a photo doesn't prove anything doesn't mean that anyone is supporting Hoft, whoever he is.

You can't even tell whether it's Wilson...

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_815453f4117dc3dd0.png[/qimg]
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Why are you ignoring the actual evidence and arguing this single sidetrack?

It's Wilson. That's been pointed out elsewhere in the video where people who saw him do the shooting and CNN's closeup on the video identified him as Wilson.
 
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I don't think the fracture is quite at Bigfoot level since, if it is true, it is merely some additional detail on an injury we've known about since the beginning of all this in the first police statement.

We'll see in time. Ultimately, if Michael Brown injured the officer's face with a punch which came in response to the officer merely trying to verbally interact with he and Dorian Johnson, then the particulars of how severe that injury was don't mean a lot to me. He sought to injure the officer, and possibly even sought to kill the officer, to avoid accountability and consequences for his earlier crime.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
You do realize there were a massive number of white slaves (particularly from my ethnicity, as a matter of fact) in the colonial period right? And that they were treated worse than black slaves?

And that a tiny percentage of slaves taken from Africa were ever taken to North America? Here's an article by none other than Henry Louis Gates, Jr. about it:



And that conditions here as compared to the other far more likely destinations (Staying in Africa as a slave to other Africans, going to Muslim lands, Central & South America, Caribbean) were the best possible option? The slaves taken to America were the lucky ones (relatively speaking)
Of course, being the "lucky ones" among slaves isn't much of a distinction and nobody denies that slavery was an awful institution. No informed person denies that it was pretty much universal to all of humanity for all of history, until guess who finally ended it after participating far less than others? Yep, whitey. To the point of shedding oceans of white blood in the American civil war to end the practice here, and British ships hunting down slavers on the high seas, etc.

Looking at Africa today, and Haiti today, and Detroit today... and the entire planet today, I am unaware of any compelling evidence which would point toward a "systemic history of slavery and white oppression blah blah blah" type of explanation for what Ferguson is like. As far as I can tell, this is just how African societies are. Whether it's looting Ebola blankets and having sex with infants to try to cure AIDS, burning witches and putting gasoline filled rubber tires around people's shoulders then lighting them (Nelson Mandela's wife was a proponent of this) or looting the local convenience store and looting the public coffers in Detroit and Philadelphia and D.C... I am awaiting evidence for this ever so popular "white men did it" view of the black condition.

All people have suffered. All people have enslaved and been enslaved. All have raided and been raided, conquered and been conquered, killed and been killed.

Other immigrant groups have come to the US and prospered despite being treated horribly, including my own.

ETA: I talked about slavery being ended as though it doesn't still go on today, it does... and a lot of it is in Africa.
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So, I take that as a 'yes'? :boggled:
 
Skeptic Tank said:
I don't think the fracture is quite at Bigfoot level since, if it is true, it is merely some additional detail on an injury we've known about since the beginning of all this in the first police statement.

We'll see in time. Ultimately, if Michael Brown injured the officer's face with a punch which came in response to the officer merely trying to verbally interact with he and Dorian Johnson, then the particulars of how severe that injury was don't mean a lot to me. He sought to injure the officer, and possibly even sought to kill the officer, to avoid accountability and consequences for his earlier crime.
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Ummm, no.

If all Brown did was punch Wilson once and then he backed off, that would not justify deadly force. Perhaps a shot with a tazer to subdue him, but not six bullets from a pistol.

Now if Brown kept beating on Wilson, or if he went for the pistol, that's a different story where lethal force could be justified.

You seem to be acting as if any aggressive behavior on Brown's part justified deadly force against him.
 
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Skeptic Tank said:
True, it might not be true.
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Neither have I. And I still haven't in anything but name. I think I've heard of the site Gateway Pundit, but I don't think I've ever visited it.

It could certainly turn out that it is a BS rumor, which is fine. I don't have a problem with people discussing things in a "if this turns out to be true then I think this" type of way, on either side.
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And the back peddling continues. Who me? I never said it was a true claim. :rolleyes:

:sdl: Sooo predictable.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Is that backtracking and doubling down in the same paragraph?
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Here's the deal. I've never once vouched the veracity of the report and more than once urged caution. There is no backtracking.

My position before I learned of this reportage: Medical reports will determine the extent of Wilson's injury.

My position after learning of this reportage: Medical reports will determine the extent of Wilson's injury.

My position replying to this post: Medical reports will determine the extent Wilson's injury.

I evaluate the objective truth of the report as undetermined based on the criterion described above. I evaluate the possibility of this report being truthful as plausible based on narratives provided by the FPD and the family friend which have been corroborated as being consistent with Wilson's narrative subject to the asterisk regarding second-hand reporting.

I evaluate claims that the report is either objectively false or objectively true as unreliable based on the person making those claims not having access to information from which to draw an objective conclusion.

The report is false. The attending, board-certified radiologist indicated no damage to any of the orbital bones and structures. Here's a jpeg of the imaging and here's the report..
 
MattusMaximus said:
Forced segregation in the U.S. didn't end until 1964, just a generation ago. To think that there wouldn't be some lingering cultural issues related to that is pretty obtuse or naive. Add to that a healthy dose of incompetence clearly on display by the behavior of the Ferguson police and how they've handled the situation (snipers on armored carriers for the first peaceful protests, not to mention arresting journalists in a McDonalds - seriously?), and it isn't hard to see how things got to where they are now.
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Okay, what does that have to do with the abolition of slavery?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
And the back peddling continues. Who me? I never said it was a true claim. :rolleyes:

:sdl: Sooo predictable.
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There's a new rumor making the rounds on twitter (apparently started by a radio station in the area that based its claims on close prosecution sources. This station also claims to have been the first to reveal the autopsy results.) that Dorian Johnson has recently come clean about the shooting -- confirming Wilson's account that Brown attacked him and tried to take his weapon. Unfortunately, I can't find the name of the station. :eye-poppi
 
LTC8K6 said:
Lot of right wing buzz...

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...-did-try-for-officers-gun-acquittal-probable/
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Well let's see, the Gateway Pundit eye socket fracture has run its course, let's go with a new unsupported right wing blogger claim.

*UPDATE* BREAKING REPORT – Dorian Johnson Recants Media Statement ? – Tells Authorities “Big Mike” Did Try For Officers Gun – Grand Jury Charges “Unlikely”… *UPDATE* – But Special Prosecutor Might Be Assigned Anyway
Posted on August 19, 2014 by sundance
Bear with us – and proceed with caution – as we give you breaking news and source out the information:
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Honestly, why are you guys posting this unsupported crap?
 
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